# Do you believe that Bernie will beat Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 24, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441 "2020-02-24T15:50:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/81 "2020-02-25T02:40:17Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Even to benefit a charity? Yes, even then it’s considered a bullshit macho move. As I understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/82 "2020-02-25T02:47:54Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Yes, even then it’s considered a bullshit macho move. As I understand it. Fair enough. I was not aware of the new rule. Thanks for pointing it out. I do not see how it is a “bullshit macho move” though. If it were for some huge amount maybe a bullshit macho move since one person may not be as able to lose money as much as the other. If it were for a dollar or a gentlemen’s bet hardly macho and just pride on the line. If it were to benefit a charity it would even result in some good. But rules are rules. Back to the thread at hand… ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/83 "2020-02-25T03:21:30Z")
Ironically, I don’t think Trump and the GOP will be able to hurt Bernie; I think Bernie will be a victim of his own success. Bernie will probably get close to Trump in terms of polling, and maybe even some polls will have Bernie slightly ahead. But Sanders will absolutely motivate Trump’s base to show up at the polls - absolutely. That’s one problem, though I think that’s true of any Dem opponent. But the bigger problem is that people will start to wonder, “Is this fucker for real?” You mean Bernie really wants to change the whole goddamn system and he’s polling at 50%? He wants free college and he’s polling at 50%? He wants free childcare and he’s polling at 50%? Ordinary people know damn well that Mitch McConnell and the Republicans aren’t going to pass even a fraction of the massive taxes that would be required, and at some point people are going to start asking how it’s going to be paid for. And unlike the Bros, people will want answers. Sanders is a movement, but a movement isn’t necessarily a president. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/84 "2020-02-25T03:24:16Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If that happens, Dems take control of both houses and Sanders gets the presidency and then the Dems thwart Sanders the Dems are only ruining their own party. Come next election it will be easy to point to them and say they couldn’t get shit done and it’ll swing back to the republicans. > > Republicans are great at getting everyone in their caucus to march in lock-step. Even when members hate each other they side with each other (almost always). Dems have never been good at that and what you describe is only worse. > > If the Dems want to commit political suicide because they are butthurt that Sanders won then I’m not sure the party deserves a future. This isn’t a grass roots movement from the ground up but rather a cult of personality candidate making promises from the top down. Sure, a lot of Democrats will hold their noses and vote for Sanders over Trump. It doesn’t mean they endorse his agenda. Why do you think Sanders has never had any legislative successes? Why do you think he never joined the party? He’s not a Democrat and the Democratic party is not beholden to him. There isn’t going to be any mandate. It really worries me that his koolaid guzzling fans are so ignorant of the realpolitik. They’re going to be hurt badly no matter which way this election goes. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/85 "2020-02-25T03:26:19Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > This isn’t a grass roots movement from the ground up but rather a cult of personality candidate making promises from the top down. Sure, a lot of Democrats will hold their noses and vote for Sanders over Trump. It doesn’t mean they endorse his agenda. Why do you think Sanders has never had any legislative successes? Why do you think he never joined the party? He’s not a Democrat and the Democratic party is not beholden to him. There isn’t going to be any mandate. It really worries me that his koolaid guzzling fans are so ignorant of the realpolitik. They’re going to be hurt badly no matter which way this election goes. And another thing: those koolaid guzzling cultist Bernie bros are SO RUDE! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/86 "2020-02-25T03:27:59Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Except he has, his whole career (35 years or more) and did very well in 2016 primaries and is winning now. > > They numpties who all scream “socialist!” and freak out are not the people who would vote for any democrat anyway. Well actual democrats are screaming socialist. Are folks like James Carville and Chris Matthews freaked out numpties? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/87 "2020-02-25T03:28:27Z")
I’m not seeing where this bizarre consensus that the front-runner who consistently polls higher than Trump is doomed to lose because “something something George McGovern” is coming from. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/88 "2020-02-25T03:34:22Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Well actual democrats are screaming socialist. Are folks like James Carville and Chris Matthews freaked out numpties? Err…yeah! Did you see their recent, unhinged rants? (To be fair Matthews always sounds unhinged. It’s just how he rolls. He probably sounds unhinged ordering a Big Mac at McDonalds.) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/89 "2020-02-25T03:37:32Z")
After Bernie is subjected to a carpet-bombing GOP ad campaign as to his honeymoon in Soviet Moscow, his (democratic) socialism, his past praise of Castro and Ortega, insulting comments about the Democratic Party, and his plans to raise taxes and drastically cut military spending, I’m afraid that Trump will smugly - infuriatingly - be able to look forward to a second term. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/90 "2020-02-25T03:40:53Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > After Bernie is subjected to a carpet-bombing GOP ad campaign as to his honeymoon in Soviet Moscow, his (democratic) socialism, his past praise of Castro and Ortega, insulting comments about the Democratic Party, and his plans to raise taxes and drastically cut military spending, I’m afraid that Trump will smugly - infuriatingly - be able to look forward to a second term. Has Bernie made any public comments about how much he would cut the defense budget (in actual numbers - i.e., $200 billion?) Since defense spending is by far the largest discretionary spending, that would be integral to all of his other social plans. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/91 "2020-02-25T03:42:56Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > After Bernie is subjected to a carpet-bombing GOP ad campaign as to his honeymoon in Soviet Moscow, his (democratic) socialism, his past praise of Castro and Ortega, insulting comments about the Democratic Party, and his plans to raise taxes and drastically cut military spending, I’m afraid that Trump will smugly - infuriatingly - be able to look forward to a second term. So, you think this is all a secret that the GOP will unleash on the uninformed hordes after the conventions? C’mon…Sanders is a known quantity. No one is going to be surprised or shocked learning something in a few months that they didn’t know now unless they are living under a rock. ---
**Author:** ![Suse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Suse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suse)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/92 "2020-02-25T03:55:18Z")
No, Bernie won’t beat Trump. The policy ideas that make Bernie fans aren’t the ones that get people to the voting booth. Medicare for All isn’t even a starter. The president can’t just decree it and have it done and Congress won’t pass it. Free college? Lots of people who paid their way and their kids’ way want nothing to do with it. Maybe if we could get Bernie to downplay those ideas in favor of talking about potential Supreme Court appointments, about protecting abortion rights, about finding a solution to the gun death epidemic, about finding a way to save Social Security and ensure it exists for future generations, MAYBE then he would be able to resonate with what actually gets people out of their chairs and to the polls. But it’s not gonna happen. If he hasn’t started talking that way by now he never will. I don’t actually see anyone in the field who can beat Trump right now. I haven’t even been able to decide how to vote in the primary as the field including Bernie are all so…lacking. I’ll vote for whichever candidate wins the Democratic nomination, because I despise Trump and all he stands for. I don’t yet have a preference although one of those blind policy tests told me my ideas match closest to Bloomberg. But he’s not going to take it either. I’m feeling very pessimistic about November. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/93 "2020-02-25T04:00:22Z")
Disclaimer: I’m not a Bernie voter first and foremost or anything. I’d rather see Elizabeth Warren. I wouldn’t cry if the nominee were a yet-different non-Bernie Democrat. He totally has my vote if he gets the nom, but so would the others. * * * Anyone who says “Bernie Sanders can’t win the general election” needs to step back. You don’t know that. Donald freaking TRUMP won the previous election. Did you think _he_ could? Do you think the Republican establishment thought he could? I think our ability to predict this stuff is an ability not recently demonstrated. I actually think it’s possible that some Trump voters would consider voting for Sanders. Yeah, I know the politics are diametrically opposed. But these are voters who vote for personality, for someone to give 'em hell and shake up the established system. Keep in mind that Trump didn’t exactly represent their best interests, like he’s gonna champion them and their concerns overall. They saw some places where it seemed that he would and they liked his attitude. They might see places where Bernie seems like _he_ would, and he’s got attitude. I’m talking about the folks in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and Michigan and Iowa and Ohio who are feeling left out of the political considerations. Both politicians are populists. He’s not my choice. He actually doesn’t have a huge appeal to me, although I do want single-payer universal health insurance. But if populism is in the ascendancy he could totally take it. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/94 "2020-02-25T04:01:26Z")
I don’t think anyone can beat Trump. That said, if anyone has a chance, it’s Bernie. Right now, both bases are fired up and ready to vote. The only people left to get fired up is the young people and minorities. And Bernie has got that better than Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/95 "2020-02-25T04:13:02Z")
> [@Suse](#): > > The policy ideas that make Bernie fans aren’t the ones that get people to the voting booth. Medicare for All isn’t even a starter. Why not? Almost every country on the planet has this. Why is it inconceivable here? > [@](#): > > Free college? Lots of people who paid their way and their kids’ way want nothing to do with it. Why not? The [US used to have free colleges](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/feb/09/bernie-s/was-college-once-free-united-states-and-it-oversea/). What stands in the way is some butthurt asshole who figures since she/he had to pay tuition everyone else for the rest of time should too? Fuck them! Seriously, that is like slaves protesting freeing slaves because if they lived as slaves the other must too. Insanity. > [@](#): > > I don’t actually see anyone in the field who can beat Trump right now. I haven’t even been able to decide how to vote in the primary as the field including Bernie are all so…lacking. [All polls show Sanders beating Trump.](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-6250.html) > [@](#): > > I’ll vote for whichever candidate wins the Democratic nomination, because I despise Trump and all he stands for. I don’t yet have a preference although one of those blind policy tests told me my ideas match closest to Bloomberg. But he’s not going to take it either. If you match closest to Bloomberg than you are more conservative than liberal. If Republicans had let candidates run against Trump I think the Republican party would have had a super-solid chance and winning again with a new Republican. But they prevented that. Bloomberg was a Republican now turned Democrat. Funny since Trump was a Democrat turned Republican. More billionaires in the White House. Yay! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/96 "2020-02-25T04:28:02Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Has Bernie made any public comments about how much he would cut the defense budget (in actual numbers - i.e., $200 billion?) Since defense spending is by far the largest discretionary spending, that would be integral to all of his other social plans. He’s been careful not to get into hard numbers, but it’ll be easy for the Trumpinistas to spin it as him wanting draconian cuts and hurting US national security: > **[Exclusive: Bernie Sanders explains his plan to cut military spending](https://www.vox.com/2019/5/2/18525580/bernie-sanders-plan-cut-military-spending)** > > It doesn’t sound very workable. > **[Bernie Sanders is wrong — twice — in claim about defense budget voting record](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/dec/20/bernie-sanders/bernie-sanders-wrong-twice-claim-about-defense-bud/)** > > Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders isn’t a big fan of President Donald Trump’s latest defense spending bill. Tuesday morning, t > **[Military Times questionnaire: Sen. Bernie Sanders](https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2019/11/18/military-times-questionnaire-sen-bernie-sanders/)** > > Sen. Bernie Sanders gives his responses to the Military Times questionnaire of Democratic presidential candidates. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > So, you think this is all a secret that the GOP will unleash on the uninformed hordes after the conventions? > > C’mon…Sanders is a known quantity. No one is going to be surprised or shocked learning something in a few months that they didn’t know now unless they are living under a rock. If he’s the nominee, lots of blue-collar and older Dems are going to hear a lot of stuff about Bernie, much of it from his own lips and his own pen, that they didn’t know before. And it won’t be helpful to Bernie, much as I wish it were otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/97 "2020-02-25T04:34:00Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If you match closest to Bloomberg than you are more conservative than liberal. If Republicans had let candidates run against Trump I think the Republican party would have had a super-solid chance and winning again with a new Republican. But they prevented that. You should probably inform Bill Weld of this. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/98 "2020-02-25T04:39:23Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > If he’s the nominee, lots of blue-collar and older Dems are going to hear a lot of stuff about Bernie, much of it from his own lips and his own pen, that they didn’t know before. And it won’t be helpful to Bernie, much as I wish it were otherwise. Sanders’ whole shtick is working for blue collar workers. What do they think unions are? A pure vision of capitalism? Collective bargaining is a socialist thing, not a capitalist thing. In 2016 Sanders’ appeal was he was able to peel off blue collar workers on the fringe. When Sanders was out they went back to Trump. As close as it was that is the reason Trump’s own pollster felt Sanders would have won where Clinton lost. Remember Sanders beat Clinton in Michigan in 2016. Sanders plays well in the Rust Belt. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/99 "2020-02-25T04:44:00Z")
If the economy doesn’t crash before November, no. Nope. Trump wine. If it does crash, maybe Bernie will win. This Caronavirus did not come at a good time for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Suse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Suse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suse)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/100 "2020-02-25T04:59:43Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Why not? Almost every country on the planet has this. Why is it inconceivable here? Because Congress isn’t going to pass it and the President doesn’t get to create it out of thin air. I think it’s possible that we may eventually end up with MFA but if we do, it’s more likely to be successfully done in incremental steps. I want healthcare for all too, but I want to know that it will be successful before we throw out the current system. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Why not? The [US used to have free colleges](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/feb/09/bernie-s/was-college-once-free-united-states-and-it-oversea/). What stands in the way is some butthurt asshole who figures since she/he had to pay tuition everyone else for the rest of time should too? Fuck them! Seriously, that is like slaves protesting freeing slaves because if they lived as slaves the other must too. Insanity. Another thing I would like to see eventually, but I’m also realistic. People who don’t think college is a must aren’t interested in paying for someone else (or someone else’s kid) to go. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > [All polls show Sanders beating Trump.](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-6250.html) I don’t care what the polls say in February. After 2016, I’m not likely to care what they say in October either. I want Trump/Pence gone and I would be happy to be wrong. I’m just very afraid that I’m right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441.md?page=6)