# Do you believe that Bernie will beat Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 24, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441 "2020-02-24T15:50:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/161 "2020-02-25T20:49:43Z")
the GOP won’t wait until the convention to go after Sanders . If he continues to lead in delegates they will go after him way before July. they might start next week after super Tuesday. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/162 "2020-02-25T21:15:02Z")
What a brave new world, based on 1950s prejudices and biases. When republicans appeal to regressive values they are much better at it. Remember that when you get bloomie vs orange. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/163 "2020-02-25T21:23:35Z")
The rebupkis are coming! Look out. Time to get scared. I hear they have a special name for bernie. It’s VICIOUS! ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/164 "2020-02-25T21:27:40Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Agreed. Trump is very beatable. With the economy the way it is, he should not be, but he is. He has high negatives. > > But you guys are about to nominate possibly the only high profile Democrat in the country who is unable to beat him _ **because he is so extreme and admits he is so extreme** _. I see you’re getting down to real electoral science. I want to point out the phrase “you guys” in your post to suggest that your advice might be coming from outside the tent. ---
**Author:** ![TimfromNapa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@TimfromNapa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimfromNapa)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/165 "2020-02-25T21:30:53Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > I originally considered “can” instead of “will” in the title but I don’t want to cloud this thread with “If such and such happens”, then he “can” win. I want to know if you think that he will beat Trump. So look into your crystal ball and vote. > > Obviously this assumes that Bernie wins the nomination. Please don’t fight the hypothetical. My fear is that Bernie will win the nomination and choose his biggest fan, A.O. Cortez, as his running mate. Trump wins by a landslide and the House is lost. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/166 "2020-02-25T21:34:54Z")
> [@TimfromNapa](#): > > My fear is that Bernie will win the nomination and choose his biggest fan, A.O. Cortez, as his running mate. Trump wins by a landslide and the House is lost. AOC is not 35 and thus does not qualify for VP. ---
**Author:** ![Socsback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Socsback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Socsback)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/167 "2020-02-25T21:35:51Z")
> [@Fugazi](#): > > You know. The Democrats will actually be campaigning too. And there’s a hell of a lot more negative to be said about Trump than Bernie. And I think Bernie has a lot more positive things to say too. All of the negative stuff has already been said about Trump. Nobody is going to dislike him more than they do right now. Not so with Bernie. Democratic primaries are NOTHING, compared to what’s coming. Huge segments of Americans don’t give a rip about the Democratic primary. For reference, about 4 times more people will be watching the presidential debates than are watching the Democratic debates. America is going to know Bernie REALLY well, and there’s a LOT of baggage there. His Democratic opponents have SOME motive to quell their attacks. Republican opponents will come with both barrels. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/168 "2020-02-25T21:47:18Z")
We need to consider the possibility that the act of publicly knuckling under to the fear of how mean the republicans are, and nominating a MOR candidate, is a sign of weakness that will make bloomie or biden lose even worse than they would have otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/169 "2020-02-25T21:50:14Z")
> [@Fugazi](#): > > And there’s a hell of a lot more negative to be said about Trump than Bernie. The thing is…those things you say are negative about Trump are not necessarily seen as negatives by his base. You see racism, they see patriotism. You see kids separated from their parents, they see tough immigration policy. You see punishing people for being poor, they see sound fiscal policy. You see outrageous disdain for the rule of law, they see a hero’s courageous fight against activist judges. You see day, they see night. Really, unless you’ve got video of him stuffing kittens into a wood chipper, and maybe even then, going negative on Trump is not going to matter. The only negative thing I can imagine that might hurt Trump would be proof that he pressured multiple women into having abortions–better yet if he paid for them. But if you do have that somehow…the people offended by abortion aren’t going to vote Dem, they’ll just stay home. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/170 "2020-02-25T22:03:02Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > Well, it’s actually pretty easy. Just don’t shout so much. > > I’m completely serious - the tone of someone’s voice is extremely important to how they and their ideas are perceived. If Sanders can discuss the rapacious greed of the billionaire class in a calm way without raising his voice, he can make more of an impact than he would be able to if he stuck with his angry hectoring style. That particular suggestion I agree is simple. I’m not sure it’s easy though for him. Again, not to take the comparison too far, lots of people somewhat sympathetic to Trump’s general political positioning really wish he’d modify basic elements of his personal style. But he just can’t/won’t. Again I think that’s generally typical of old people whose styles have worked for them, generally. Anyway do you really think that one thing would go that far? I think the more important point actually is that a lot of what Sanders proposes really _doesn’t_ fit into the template ‘every other rich country does it’. The general idea of a more socialized health system being standard everywhere else is reasonably true as political claims go (though the US system is far from 100% private now, more like 50/50, and some other rich country systems also have a big private component). Taking 8% of anyone’s assets per yr or 77% at death really isn’t standard anywhere, that’s way past what’s done anywhere else. So ‘nicely explaining’ the Sanders idea is still US going from (at least supposedly, also not 100% true on every issue now) most rightist rich country to most leftist on some pretty major issues. It’s fair to wonder if that’s really just a matter of how it’s explained, or whether Sanders could run into a more fundamental problem in the general which isn’t reflected in (often ‘registered voter’) polls when most people still aren’t paying attention. Though lots of elections turn out close, so it can’t be ruled out that little things could make a difference. And the whole situation is not entirely predictable. Say Covid 19 turns into a huge issue and it can be plausibly argued the govt mishandled it. That’s not predictable. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/171 "2020-02-25T22:32:19Z")
> [@Fugazi](#): > > You know. The Democrats will actually be campaigning too. And there’s a hell of a lot more negative to be said about Trump than Bernie. And I think Bernie has a lot more positive things to say too. Sure. But we’ve already heard the negative stuff about Trump. It’s old news. Sanders hasn’t been a real target yet. The negatives about him will be fresh news. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/172 "2020-02-25T22:39:20Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > the GOP won’t wait until the convention to go after Sanders . If he continues to lead in delegates they will go after him way before July. they might start next week after super Tuesday. They’ll play at it. But they won’t go full negative that early. They want to weaken Sanders not destroy him. They don’t want to hurt Sanders so badly that he drops out (or is kicked out) and they suddenly have to start working on attacking a different candidate. That and the timing. You want to save the really good stuff for the summer so it will still be fresh in people’s minds on Election Day. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/173 "2020-02-25T22:46:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > [Sanders has issued some fairly detailed plans for paying for his proposals.](https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-does-bernie-pay-his-major-plans/) I have no opinion on whether these plans are realistic, and am not qualified to make that judgment anyway; and I suspect this website is brand spanking new (I looked for such a page literally yesterday and couldn’t find it, but it was the first Google result this morning). He may even have released it just in time for the debate tonight. > > But it’s no longer accurate to say he doesn’t have any details on how he’s gonna pay for everything. That is positively frightening. At least if he is elected there is zero chance of any of that passing. He could have 70 Dems in the Senate and 300 Dems in the House and that still doesn’t pass. Yeah, but stick it to the rich, right? Let’s just look at one data point: That 8% Jeff Bezos wealth tax. Bezos would owe approximately $7 billion dollars per year to the feds. Most of his wealth is in Amazon stock. He will be required to sell a bunch of it every year to pay the tax, causing the stock price to plummet and hurting everyone with 401ks. You think Bezos is going to keep innovating knowing that the company he built is being confiscated right out from under him? How does that affect consumers who use Amazon? Now apply that to every major company. It’s absolutely radical insanity. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/174 "2020-02-25T23:05:38Z")
Well who ever said dems aren’t working to make a win impossible? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/175 "2020-02-25T23:10:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > They’ll play at it. But they won’t go full negative that early. They want to weaken Sanders not destroy him. They don’t want to hurt Sanders so badly that he drops out (or is kicked out) and they suddenly have to start working on attacking a different candidate. > > That and the timing. You want to save the really good stuff for the summer so it will still be fresh in people’s minds on Election Day. We may live in hellscape where republicans are opaque and omniscient, and dems are their chattel and subjects. You seem to think they aren’t even campaigning, just wating for the punch. But acting like it’s true going in is a bad move. I don’t see it for 2020 anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Warm\_blood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@Warm\_blood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Warm_blood)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/176 "2020-02-25T23:19:06Z")
A bit soon to be asking this question. We don’t know what oppo research might come out to hurt Sanders and to what extent it will hurt him. We don’t know what profoundly stupid attempt at interfering in the election Trump will get caught doing that might trigger another call for impeachment. Or how the economy will hold itself up by November (coronavirus is already hurting the global economy, and Trump doing nothing to stymie the spread of the disease isn’t helping). Lots of variables at play here. But the democrats’ best bet is for Trump to be severely weakened so that electability doesn’t matter so much for whoever the candidate is. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/177 "2020-02-25T23:37:19Z")
I used to have a feeling for what Americans would and wouldn’t do, but I don’t any more, that disappeared with trump. So frankly I do not have any idea who would win. I do get the sense that both the racist fascistic morons who make up such a surprisingly large section of the electorate and more ordinary people share in the collective sense that everything is fucked up and broken and there is no returning to any previous more comfortable political state, there is no path to it any more. ---
**Author:** ![Suse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Suse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suse)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/178 "2020-02-25T23:47:40Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > What was 2016 a referendum on? Hillary. I like Hillary and her policy wonk tendencies. I think we need people in office who actually like the nitpicky technical details of running the country. But even in 2016 I couldn’t see how she could win, mostly because I am surrounded by people who hate her and who swallow every vicious lie and piece of slime the Republican machine has put out about her for the last 25 years. Sometimes they tell me they think Trump is a “boob” but they think Hillary is way worse. Those people are the ones who put him in office. I think to find a way to win, the Democrats need to make the election a referendum on Trump and how hideously awful he is for our country and for the world, what a sordid, slimy person he is and make sure it is absolutely clear how he has violated our Constitution and our laws. I think we need to go after Mitch and the other Republicans who have fallen all over themselves to accommodate Trump’s desires while with the other hand doing their utmost to steal democracy from the people. We need a emotional appeal, regardless of who the candidate may be. Stir up as much revulsion as we can against Trump and his cronies and then we might have a chance. And of course I’m guessing. And hoping. I don’t claim that my thoughts are any more than that. Like I said, I hope I’m wrong. I’m just very afraid that I’m right. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/179 "2020-02-25T23:53:54Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You think Bezos is going to keep innovating knowing that the company he built is being confiscated right out from under him? How does that affect consumers who use Amazon? > > Now apply that to every major company. It’s absolutely radical insanity. :dubious: > **[THE TRUTH ABOUT TAXES: Here's How High Today's Rates Really Are](https://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-tax-rates)** > [@](#): > > ``` > Today's income tax rates are strikingly low relative to the rates of the past century, especially for rich people. For most of the century, including some boom times, top-bracket income tax rates were much higher than they are today. > > Contrary to what Republicans would have you believe, super-high tax rates on rich people do not appear to hurt the economy or make people lazy: During the 1950s and early 1960s, the top bracket income tax rate was over 90%--and the economy, middle-class, and stock market boomed. > > Super-low tax rates on rich people also appear to be correlated with unsustainable sugar highs in the economy--brief, enjoyable booms followed by protracted busts. They also appear to be correlated with very high inequality. (For example, see the 1920s and now). > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441/180 "2020-02-26T00:11:39Z")
> [@Warm\_blood](#): > > A bit soon to be asking this question. We don’t know what oppo research might come out to hurt Sanders and to what extent it will hurt him. We don’t know what profoundly stupid attempt at interfering in the election Trump will get caught doing that might trigger another call for impeachment. Or how the economy will hold itself up by November (coronavirus is already hurting the global economy, and Trump doing nothing to stymie the spread of the disease isn’t helping). Lots of variables at play here. But the democrats’ best bet is for Trump to be severely weakened so that electability doesn’t matter so much for whoever the candidate is. Another thing is Ternp has not debated since Clinton. I think he is very vulnerable. The clinton thing is famous for the harrassment and stalking on the stage. If he gets a smart articulate opponent it will be a crack in the facade. Who will be able to give him the coup de grace? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-bernie-will-beat-trump/848441.md?page=10)