I think this thread (bus driver uppercuts young woman), and the video(s) contained therein, provide an interesting and useful case-study to get away from the generalizations and see the differences of opinions about something much more specific.
I posted in the other thread that a woman hitting a man is wrong and a man hitting a woman is really wrong.
I don’t think it’s even remotely okay for women to hit men (and anyone who hits anyone else deserves to be hit back just as hard), but I still think it’s worse when a man hits a woman.
I agree that gender *should *have zero weight, but we don’t live in an ideal world. So, it doesn’t. Women are not as strong as men. Additionally, abusive women are more likely to rely on emotional or verbal abuse, whereas abusive men are more likely to rely on sexual or physical abuse. If I see a woman hitting a man in public, I’ll roll my eyes because, although I hate that so many women do this, there’s a very good chance she’s not intending to abuse the guy and is unlikely to be hurting him much. When I see a man hitting a woman in public, I reach for my cell phone and dial 911.
I picked number one. I realize that no one should hit anyone, but I’m 70, and I grew up believing that, while a woman might sometimes be justified in slapping a man,
a man just did not hit a woman for any reason.
I don’t think it’s a good idea to judge morality on averages, though. The ‘average’ man doesn’t hit an ‘average’ woman; one person hits another person. Which, barring extenuating circumstances, and done with intent to harm, is wrong, full stop.
Option #1. I’m an average-sized guy, not particularly muscular, and for the most part hitting a woman would be hitting someone smaller and weaker than me. Unless a woman* catches me totally by surprise, she can’t hurt me by hitting me. I can block, dodge, interpose objects, or outrun her in pretty much any case. Her hitting doesn’t represent a serious threat, and so is a distinctly lesser evil than if I were to try to hit her.
*A woman I’ve got a decent likelihood of encountering. Sure, there are women who are skilled fighters. They’re not in my world.
I think it is a legitimate issue here. Keep in mind were talking about hitting somebody not stabbing or shooting them. There isn’t going to be incapacitation so the person being hit has the ability to respond.
So intimidation is a factor. An average woman hitting an average man and an average man hitting an average woman both know the other person has the capacity to hit them back. But the average man is initiating a situation where he knows he has the advantage while the average woman is initiating a situation where the other other person has the advantage.
Now in both cases, the other person probably isn’t going to hit back. But an average man who’s been hit at least has the option of hitting back and asserting his physical advantage while an average woman who’s been hit does not.
An average woman hitting an average man is essentially saying, “I’m going to hit you and I’ll get away with it only if you allow it. This is a confrontation I might win or lose. You get to decide how this ends.” But an average man hitting an average woman is essentially saying, “I’m going to hit you and I’ll get away with it regardless of how you respond. This is a confrontation I can’t lose. I’m in control now.”
About relative strengths and “results:” I read somewhere that in domestic violence cases (extreme ones) men are more likely to be seriously injured (die?) because women, knowing their relative lack of body strength, are more likely to use a household weapon, including pans, etc.
But I think this is an apples and oranges comparison. I agree it’s worse for a woman to strike a man with a weapon than it is for a man to strike a woman with his hands.
That’s arguable. The woman knows that she has the legal/cultural advantage; that if he hits back she can call in the police and he will be condemned both legally and by the public at large for hitting her regardless of the provocation. For that matter if she’s willing to lie and claim he struck first she can likely get away with shooting or stabbing him, not just a punch or slap. The edge really goes to whichever person is most ruthless, whoever is most willing to press their unfair advantage. A man willing to use his superior strength can probably overwhelm the woman; a woman willing to take unfair advantage of society’s (justifiable) concern over domestic violence against women can bring down the law on him, or get away with seriously injuring or killing him with a weapon. And a woman willing to take unfair advantage of society’s “men shouldn’t ever hit women” rule can strike men without fear of retaliation most of the time.
I do not understand anyone saying it is more moral, even though I said in the other poll that I would initially assume that the man was being abusive while the woman was not. It doesn’t mean that women hitting men is in general more moral than men hitting women. I thought it was pretty nigh universally established that abuse was wrong on both sides.
I also don’t understand this idea that weight makes people scarier. Muscle does, sure, but not weight. I’m pretty sure a 180 lb man would not at all be scared of me, despite weighing a lot more than that.
I think you’re saying that it’s worse for a stronger woman to hit a weaker man than for a weaker man to hit a stronger woman, yes? So why not just drop sex and say its worse for the stronger person to hit the weaker person than vice versa?
I said it doesn’t matter. The morality of it has nothing to with the gender of the parties involved. Hitting is either justified or not, significant or not, and the gender has nothing to do with it.
These poll results are honestly shocking me. I can’t believe there are so many sensible men who realize that the two are morally equivalent (I honestly thought that the vast majority of guys would be woefully mistaken in thinking that it’s worse for a man to hit a woman, but that doesn’t seem to be the case), and that amongst the ladies the decision is much more closely split. What’s wrong with you gals???
I’d easily answer that society considers it to be worse. But I don’t find a basis in morality for that, just tradition.
As a man who has hit a woman I disagree, it is much worse for a man to hit a woman.
I could make excuses. She was my older sister. Our mother had just died. She’d been hitting me for years. In our last argument she’d escalated from just throwing punches to actually pulling a butchers knife off the kitchen wall and gleefully brandishing it in my face. It happened within three minutes of me being woken up at 6AM by her throwing open my bedroom door and screaming at the top of her lungs.
It was still not OK for me to hit her.
As a man you have to show forbearance no matter what the provocation. You are larger and stronger. You can do more damage to her in a moment than she could do to you in an hour.
Unfortunately, I did that. My sister had to go to the hospital for stitches, and I will regret it to my dying day.
If you hit a woman you’re a piece of scum. Like me.
/That was 9 years ago. I haven’t bothered any women since then.
I won’t answer any poll like that with “morally” in it.
However, I think if a woman hits a man she deserves to get hit back with the same amount of force, but I don’t think a man should hit a woman first, unless it’s in self defence.
Unfortunately, the law tends to favour women over men, regardless of how much she deserved a slapping, so not a good idea to for a man to hit a woman.
As someone that worked in a female dominated workforce for 26 years, I have no time for the idiocy that says a woman is the “gentler sex”. I’ve known women that were more aggressive than men, and the rest considered themselves to be equal with men, so they should take the good with the bad of equality.
You say it’s not okay for women to hit men and that anyone who hits anyone else can hit back, but your described reaction is pretty different: an eye-roll vs. calling 911? Something that’s not remotely okay deserves more than an eye-roll, no?
You may (or may not) have hit her harder than appropriate, but it seems entirely okay to me to hit back at someone who screams, repeatedly punches you, and threatens you with a butcher knife.
Self interest I expect; the benefits from a self-interested female perspective a man being unwilling to hit them under any circumstances are obvious.