# Do you believe that Trump will attempt to pardon himself? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 3, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660 "2020-11-03T18:25:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/121 "2021-01-19T19:36:22Z")
Man, this idea of a “secret pardon” is so good that I wish I had speculated it! This is exactly the kind of thing Trump would do. You’re right that he doesn’t need to “file” his pardon with anyone — he just needs to be able to document that he issued it while he was President. So he just keeps this in his pocket until/if he’s charged with any federal crimes, and then he goes on television and dramatically pulls it out for the cameras and says he knew that the corrupt Biden Administration would pursue a political prosecution of himself and his children, so he beat them at their own game! It’s everything Trump loves – good television, exploiting loopholes, and WINNING! It’d turn any trial into even more of a circus and delay any final justice for years as the validity of the pardon is litigated. At this point I’d be surprised if he _doesn’t_ do this. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/122 "2021-01-19T23:11:03Z")
Looks like he and kids are not getting pardons. > **[Trump talked out of pardoning kids and Republican lawmakers | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/19/politics/trump-self-pardon-warning/index.html?fbclid=IwAR17f7BZDQPorILthwyvOr4_Me0qqs2tXkTxEurOaXclgt-XeynQEANt8ys)** > > President Donald Trump received an unsettling warning on his final Saturday night in the White House. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/123 "2021-01-19T23:17:23Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > At this point I’d be surprised if he _doesn’t_ do this. But it requires that Trump be able to form a plan (or listen to good advice), follow through on the plan, and then keep quiet about it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/124 "2021-01-19T23:30:42Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Looks like he and kids are not getting pardons. That article doesn’t make it sound certain. It makes it clear that Trump has been saying all along that he plans on pardoning himself, his family members, and a bunch of his collaborators. And he’s been talking about it more frequently in the final days of his presidency. At every step, he’s had people trying to convince him not to do it. But then he moves back to the idea. And people have to pull him away from it again. So right now, the day before he leaves office, he may have agreed to not issue those pardons. But we’ll have to see if he doesn’t change his mind before noon tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/125 "2021-01-19T23:57:05Z")
Although there’s no way to know for certain at this point, I’d bet my mortgage that pardons for his family and himself have been drawn up. The only question is whether or not he will issue them. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/126 "2021-01-19T23:59:35Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > The only question is whether or not he will issue them. I hope he decides to issue them tomorrow afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/127 "2021-01-20T07:01:30Z")
I read something earlier today that made sense and changed my mind about Trump wanting to do this. Apparently somebody came up with an argument that convinced Trump a self pardon is a bad idea. “The way it stands now, they may or may not prosecute you. But if you self pardon, they _have_ to prosecute you to test whether or not it stands up.” ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/128 "2021-01-20T15:13:54Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Interesting twist I learned about today: folks are talking about the possibility of [Trump issuing secret pardons](https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/534222-how-to-stop-trumps-secret-pardons) on his way out the door. Not that there’s anything in the law that specifically _authorizes_ secret pardons. But there’s also nothing in the law that _requires_ pardons to be made public. Interesting question if a President can issue pardons _in pectore_. The issue would be what would happen if you need it 20 years down the road and that President is not available to verify it. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/129 "2021-01-20T15:16:24Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Interesting question if a President can issue pardons _in pectore_ . The issue would be what would happen if you need it 20 years down the road and that President is not available to verify it. Isn’t this what notaries public are for? The problem you describe won’t arise if one is on hand to witness and certify the signature on the pardon. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/130 "2021-01-20T15:19:56Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > Isn’t this what notaries public are for? The problem you describe won’t arise if one is on hand to witness and certify the signature on the pardon. Assuming the notary him/herself is still around, available to testify, not thoroughly discredited by subsequent allegations of fraud, AND still on Team Trump, yes. However, what happens if the notary isn’t available or, having been screwed by the Donald, decides to say “nope, not my signature”? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/131 "2021-01-20T15:29:10Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Interesting question if a President can issue pardons _in pectore_ . The issue would be what would happen if you need it 20 years down the road and that President is not available to verify it. Nothing would happen. The concept of _in pectore_ is a Catholic construct and has no application in law. I don’t think there’s a court in this country that would rule that a federal policy can take effect without first being documented, witnessed, and notarized. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/132 "2021-01-20T15:33:06Z")
Okay – 73 pardons and 70 commutations – where’s the thread about those? > **[Trump pardons Steve Bannon along with dozens of others in final hours in office](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-pardons-steve-bannon-along-dozens-others-final-hours-office-n1254754)** > > Bannon, Trump's former chief strategist, was charged with defrauding hundreds of thousands of donors to build a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/133 "2021-01-20T15:33:49Z")
In such a situation, it would be up to a court as a finder of fact to determine what to conclude from the available evidence. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/134 "2021-01-20T15:42:11Z")
Yes, but I’m not sure the Trumpistas would want to trust a court to reach the “right” decision. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/135 "2021-01-20T16:00:24Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Assuming the notary him/herself is still around, available to testify, The whole point of notarization is to provide a legally accepted means of certifying the authenticity of a document (i.e., without having to get experts or eyewitnesses to testify in person). You probably have important documents (real estate sales contracts, etc.) that got notarized; they don’t suddenly become suspect just because the notary who certified them died or went AWOL. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/136 "2021-01-20T16:20:35Z")
No, they don’t, but then the documents I have notarized (such as those sales contracts) typically result in public action such as a deed filed with the registrar and available for public inspection fairly quickly. I’m not sitting on documents for decades KNOWING that the authenticity and timing of when it was signed is going to be incredibly important and quite controversial. While contesting the validity of notarization is fairly rare, it does happen, and even notarized documents may be thrown out based on uncertainty or errors. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/137 "2021-01-20T16:23:48Z")
I’m very much enjoying the thought of Trump in his last hour panicking - maybe I should have pardoned myself? Did I fuck up? ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/138 "2021-01-20T16:25:17Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > I’m not sitting on documents for decades KNOWING that the authenticity and timing of when it was signed is going to be incredibly important and quite controversial. I have such a document; it’s called a will. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/139 "2021-01-20T16:30:33Z")
Which are challenged all the time. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660/140 "2021-01-20T16:34:16Z")
In many jurisdictions, a will can be deposited with a government office (clerk of the court, for example, or registrar of deed), in part to prevent challenges to its authenticity. (Also, of course, the contents of your will should not be a shock to the people affected. They may not LIKE it, but they shouldn’t be surprised at your decisions.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-that-trump-will-attempt-to-pardon-himself/924660.md?page=8)