# Do You Belive In Consumer Reports Product Ratings? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 30, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-belive-in-consumer-reports-product-ratings/648843 "2013-01-30T22:35:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-belive-in-consumer-reports-product-ratings/648843/41 "2013-02-01T03:32:03Z")
> [@InsomniaMama](#): > > I think their used car ratings are excellent and reliable. When I look up my cars, the things they say are unreliable exactly match what I’ve had to fix or learn to live with on my cars. I would definitely check CR before buying a used car. I was going to voice this opinion as well. I’ve frequently checked out their ratings of (used) cars I have owned over the years and found them to be very accurate. On one particular vehicle they were _scary_ accurate on very specific areas of testing. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-belive-in-consumer-reports-product-ratings/648843/42 "2013-02-01T04:09:16Z")
> [@bot3](#): > > Or is it like a Chevrolet vs Cadillac?" Same basic car with the same basic design, but differences in quality,care of assembly and quality control and in return a higher price. And of course the bells and whistles you can’t get on a Chevy 😉 Maybe differences in quality, care of assembly etc but probably not. Probably just price differentiation through marketing of two brands of the same thing. Always bear in mind that as a general rule it costs more to have two systems rather than one. Easier to just have one system of assembly and quality control, and two marketing campaigns and brand names. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-belive-in-consumer-reports-product-ratings/648843/43 "2013-02-01T04:53:28Z")
Back in the dawn of time (1971 or so) CR tested tires. Fair enough. They tested the top of the line Sears Radial (Michelin) against the cheapest tire Montgomery Ward sold. A $12 tire against a $65 dollar tire. Not surprisingly the Sears tire tested better. In other news in that issue, water is wet, and the sun comes up in the East. Other than they were both round and black, these two tires were in no way comparable. Fair evaluation? I don’t think so. > [@Balance](#): > > I haven’t paid much attention to them in many years, but back when I did, they had some incidents of embarrassing confusion about consumer electronics. Things like rating models of one brand of VCR better than those of another brand…when the models were, in fact, identical machines made on the same assembly line. (The only difference was the brand badge). > > Aside from that, they generally seemed okay, but I never had much use for them. Along the same lines, in the 1980s Volvo used the same exact engine and transmission in both the 740 and the 240. Exactly the same, same part numbers everything. One model always rated higher in the reliability ratings, hmmmmm. > [@bot3](#): > > Hot water tanks are another example. Never buy the high priced model of the same brand heater with the longer warranty. The units are the same no matter what. The manufacture is getting a higher price only because he is willing to warrant for a longer period. And statistics show the vast majority will last at least the warranty time of the longest warranted unit they sell. :dubious: So how do you account for higher energy efficiency of the more expensive water heaters, and quicker recovery time? ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-belive-in-consumer-reports-product-ratings/648843/44 "2013-02-01T20:25:10Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Back in the dawn of time (1971 or so) CR tested tires. Fair enough. They tested the top of the line Sears Radial (Michelin) against the cheapest tire Montgomery Ward sold. A $12 tire against a $65 dollar tire. Not surprisingly the Sears tire tested better. In other news in that issue, water is wet, and the sun comes up in the East. > Other than they were both round and black, these two tires were in no way comparable. Fair evaluation? I don’t think so. ?? If the magazine tells you the prices and rates the relative traction, mileage, comfort and noise then how is it unfair? You tell the consumer what they can get for $12 and how that compares to what they can get for $65. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-belive-in-consumer-reports-product-ratings/648843/45 "2013-02-01T22:13:32Z")
Just because a product is more expensive doesn’t mean it’s better. Monster Cable is a perfect example. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-belive-in-consumer-reports-product-ratings/648843/46 "2013-02-01T22:22:21Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Just because a product is more expensive doesn’t mean it’s better. Monster Cable is a perfect example. My initial thought, too. Premium pricing can (and often does, given good marketing) create an illusion of quality. But after reading through the thread, it seems that **ralph** has clarified this to mean from within a brand. (I’m specifically thinking of this post: “But back to the original question: are the high end models from a particular mfg. all that better than the low end ones? If Bosch sells a washer at $1000..and a lower model for $500-is it worth spending the extra $500? Or is it like a Chevrolet vs Cadillac?”) ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-belive-in-consumer-reports-product-ratings/648843/47 "2013-02-02T02:03:46Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > ?? If the magazine tells you the prices and rates the relative traction, mileage, comfort and noise then how is it unfair? You tell the consumer what they can get for $12 and how that compares to what they can get for $65. Because the dumb fucks that read CR would come into to Wards and say I’m not buying your tires because they did lousy in the tire test against the Sears radial. All these morons looked at was the red and black circles. No thought process. If they are testing top line radial tires all the tires in the test should be top line radials. If they are testing cheap tires all the tires in the test should be cheap tires. Level playing field. I know this is a strange concept but to be fair to everyone you don’t to an apples to kumquats comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-belive-in-consumer-reports-product-ratings/648843/48 "2013-02-02T02:22:11Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Because the dumb fucks that read CR would come into to Wards and say I’m not buying your tires because they did lousy in the tire test against the Sears radial. Sorry if you lost some sales that way, but I can’t fault the magazine for providing facts. Some people may want to know if they need to spend $65 for a tire if they’ll just be keeping the car one more year. And I doubt that separating the ratings between price brackets would keep people from comparing the tires’ performance. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-belive-in-consumer-reports-product-ratings/648843/49 "2013-02-02T07:40:05Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > Sorry if you lost some sales that way, but I can’t fault the magazine for providing facts. Some people may want to know if they need to spend $65 for a tire if they’ll just be keeping the car one more year. And I doubt that separating the ratings between price brackets would keep people from comparing the tires’ performance. And next month will be their vehicle compassion: A Smart Car A stretch limo A Greyhound bus And a dump truck I’ll guess you also think this is a valid comparison of similar items. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-belive-in-consumer-reports-product-ratings/648843/50 "2013-02-02T12:27:38Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Because the dumb fucks that read CR would come into to Wards and say I’m not buying your tires because they did lousy in the tire test against the Sears radial. All these morons looked at was the red and black circles. No thought process. Are these same morons going into sears for tires? If so, then they did put thought into it, namely that they’ll spend the extra money for a better product. What you do get are fewer people buying Wards crappy tires because they think they’re all the same. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-belive-in-consumer-reports-product-ratings/648843/51 "2013-02-02T13:52:28Z")
I do trust them. They are trying to be as objective as possible. With cars, for example, they test only new cars, but try to give frequency of repair records for older ones. Which is the best anyone can do. They know that brands can improve–or get worse. But they cannot predict what current models will do. Their reports on American cars always included the (usually minor) defects in the cars as delivered and the Japanese cars cleaned up on that. Another point that hasn’t been made (I missed it if it was) is that for most items they include ratings of individual features. So if your kids don’t jump on the dishwasher lids, you can ignore that and look at the features that are important. A couple of caveats. When hand held calculators first came out, they downgraded the HP because of the RPN. I really find a calculator that is not RPN almost useless, but RPN calculators have nearly disappeared from the market. I am not blaming that on CR though and it was 40 years ago. When they rate computers they mix Apples and Lemons. Which is useless since nearly all prospective buyers are either Apple or Lemon users (I am irremediably the latter) already and are interested only in the within-type reviews. ---
**Author:** ![bot3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@bot3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bot3)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-belive-in-consumer-reports-product-ratings/648843/52 "2013-02-02T14:50:49Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Back in the dawn of time (1971 or so) CR tested tires. Fair enough. They tested the top of the line Sears Radial (Michelin) against the cheapest tire Montgomery Ward sold. A $12 tire against a $65 dollar tire. Not surprisingly the Sears tire tested better. In other news in that issue, water is wet, and the sun comes up in the East. > Other than they were both round and black, these two tires were in no way comparable. Fair evaluation? I don’t think so. > Along the same lines, in the 1980s Volvo used the same exact engine and transmission in both the 740 and the 240. Exactly the same, same part numbers everything. > One model always rated higher in the reliability ratings, hmmmmm. > > :dubious: > So how do you account for higher energy efficiency of the more expensive water heaters, and quicker recovery time? You need to look at the particular model. True enough some manufactures will produce two or three or more tanks with slightly different design parameters. Such as more or better insulation or a different gas or electric control valve or maybe a different heat sink. But the basic tank comes off the same assembly line. Some manufactures will make the identical tank, change the model number by one digit and offer a better warranty for a higher price. Bear in mind that an electric water heater will have a different operating cost and recovery than a gas fired unit. Still the same tank but different operation. As Princhester stated "Always bear in mind that as a general rule it costs more to have two systems rather than one. Easier to just have one system of assembly and quality control, and two marketing campaigns and brand names. " ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-belive-in-consumer-reports-product-ratings/648843/53 "2013-02-03T00:50:25Z")
My biggest problem with CR ratings is that they often limit themselves to a small field of “mainstream” options. This results in things like expensive brand-name products being recommended when lesser-known, often-inexpensive “enthusiast” products being totally ignored. For example, I’ve seen $150+ coffee makers recommended without mentioning, say, a $20 moka pot or French press. Likewise, their summer article on grills detailed plenty of pricey Char Broils available at Home Depot, but didn’t mention any of the smaller companies making great, durable setups. I can see how their mission is more about evaluating major consumer brands, but I feel like could reinforce a view that major consumer products are the only option in situations where that isn’t truly the case. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-belive-in-consumer-reports-product-ratings/648843/54 "2013-02-03T04:47:10Z")
I think CR whines about certain things in cars too much. Old examples are Saab’s console mounted ignition and certain Fords that had the horn button in a different place. These are differences that a regular driver of the car wouldn’t mind in the least but CR seemed to think they were dreadful. I also wonder just how much their colored circles for car ratings have adjusted over the years. All makes of cars are much more reliable these days- what’s the difference between full red and black in 2013 compared to 1975? ---
**Author:** ![phxjcc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phxjcc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phxjcc)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-belive-in-consumer-reports-product-ratings/648843/55 "2013-02-03T09:51:04Z")
Point of fact on their reliability ratings. The ratings are based upon the problems reported by their readers–not the general population. No evidence has ever been presented that their readership corresponds to a representative sample of the population. They constantly recommend the Mini Cooper–one of the most repair prone automobiles. They recommended the Toyota Tundra large truck–even after the 5.7 L engine problem surfaced. They hated the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car platform, but it is consistently one of the most reliable and longest lasting platforms. And yes, my truck has a “high step in height” and “some controls are a long reach” - but when you are 6’4" a Honda Fit is not a viable personal transportation solution. I find most of their auto reviews applicable to the 3/50 lease crowd–3 years and 50,000 miles. Granted, I am in the 15/250 buy crowd so to me their auto reviews are next to meaningless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-belive-in-consumer-reports-product-ratings/648843.md?page=2)