# Do you consider Chuck Berry a great guitar player **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [August 20, 2021, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236 "2021-08-20T18:40:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/1 "2021-08-20T18:40:20Z")
I’ve always considered him a so-so player. This came to my attention in the other [Guitarist Thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guitarists-whom-do-you-admire-most-as-a-player/948399), but I was concerned that if I questioned his abilities there it might come across as thread-shitting. Anyway, I think of him as a right place/right time phenom. Don’t get me wrong, I really like his music. I’ve even owned his albums. But addressing his playing only, it just seems kind of basic. Even the playing in Johnny B. Goode (which is a monumentally important song), is basically lifted from Louis Jordan’s Ain’t That Just Like a Woman played by Carl Hogan. A riff that Berry gets credit for. And its not that there weren’t other amazing guitarists before him. Django Reinhardt, for example. Or maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about. Great player or also-ran? Make your case. ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/2 "2021-08-20T19:03:46Z")
Probably not a great guitar player, but his opening to _Maybelline_ is great guitar playing. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/3 "2021-08-20T19:07:19Z")
I consider him adequate at best. But hey, it’s rock & roll! ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/4 "2021-08-20T19:10:12Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Great player or also-ran? Make your case. Great songwriter. Great synthesist. Great guitar player? I don’t know. He knew how to create a unique sound out of bits and pieces picked up from all over the place, that’s for sure. And possibly the most brilliant lyricist in popular music. You can have your Sondheim, your Coward, your Rice/Weber. Even your Ray Davies. Berry was a genius with words. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/5 "2021-08-20T19:15:11Z")
I can barely play guitar, and don’t know exactly what elements of Berry’s playing launched a thousand followers/worshipers/students. But I know that his playing during the first ten minutes of his [1958 Belgian TV appearance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhoyMlX5avU) gives me more pleasure than the collected works of many famous guitarists. Also, the singing and stagecraft are awesome. For me, delivery of raw stringed pleasure is enough to make a guitarist great. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/6 "2021-08-20T19:36:18Z")
You’d have to tell me how to define someone to be a great guitar player. Why do you think Django is a better player than Chuck? Is it simply a matter of playing in a manner you find technically more accurate? Could I feed audio of player to a computer and have it spit out a single “rating” number? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/7 "2021-08-20T20:15:02Z")
His sloppiness, shortcuts, and disregard for a lot of the technical aspects of guitar playing are actually what make Chuck Berry a great guitarist. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/8 "2021-08-20T21:18:17Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > You’d have to tell me how to define someone to be a great guitar player. Why do you think Django is a better player than Chuck? Django Reinhardt wrote zero great rock n’ roll songs. Chuck Berry, in addition to being a talented guitarist, was a terrific songwriter and mesmeric stage performer. Not always the greatest of human beings, he had to serve 20 months in prison on an essentially bogus charge, which apparently influenced his personality. Still the greatest rock n’ roll figure in history in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/9 "2021-08-20T21:29:04Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > And possibly the most brilliant lyricist in popular music. You mean like: “They furnished off an apartment with a two room Roebuck sale The coolerator was crammed with TV dinners and ginger ale But when Pierre found work, the little money comin’ worked out well “C’est la vie”, say the old folks, it goes to show you never can tell” Or “Too much monkey business for me to be involved in” (something about ending that phrase with “in” gets me!) Or “Milo Venus was a beautiful lass She had the world In the palm of her hand But she lost both her arms In a wrestling match to get A brown eyed handsome man She fought and won herself A brown eyed handsome man” And I could go on. “Last time I saw Marie, she was waving me goodbye With hurry home drops on her cheek that trickled from her eye” Actually the whole Memphis song with the twist ending. You are not wrong about him being a brilliant lyricist. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/10 "2021-08-20T21:34:42Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Django Reinhardt wrote zero great rock n’ roll songs. > > Chuck Berry, in addition to being a talented guitarist, was a terrific songwriter and mesmeric stage performer. I’ve conceded he’s one of the most important figures in the history of Rock and Roll. Mesmeric stage performer, check. Terrific songwriter, check. My OP was concerning itself with the claim that some people make that he was a great guitar player. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/11 "2021-08-20T21:40:22Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > A riff that Berry gets credit for. If you’ve seen the pretty good documentary [Hail! Hail! Rock ‘n’ Roll](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hail!_Hail!_Rock_%27n%27_Roll) Keith Richards ends up giving a lot of credit for the development of Berry’s playing style to Berry’s long-time pianist [Johnnie Johnson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnnie_Johnson_(musician)). One kinda comes away with the impression that in some ways Richards ended up more impressed as a musician with Johnson than Berry. But of course Johnson never had near the stage presence or charisma of Berry. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/12 "2021-08-20T21:43:37Z")
I consider him a great guitarist. Innovators are de facto great, and he was that. He basically brought T-Bone Walker in the rock and roll age. Yeah, he could be sloppy, but so could Hendrix. Segovia too. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/13 "2021-08-20T22:36:43Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Django Reinhardt wrote zero great rock n’ roll songs. So now, the hallmark of a great guitarist is whether they can write a rock 'n roll song? I don’t know whether to believe you or these guys: > By far the most astonishing guitar player ever has got to be Django Reinhardt … Django was quite superhuman, There’s nothing normal about him as a person or a player. — **Jeff Beck** > “He was the greatest guitarist in my mind. I’d do anything to play as great as he did.” **Les Paul** on Django Reinhardt > “Even today, nobody has really come to the state that he was playing at. As good as players are, they haven’t gotten to where he is. There’s a lot of guys that play fast and a lot of guys that play clean, and the guitar has come a long way as far as speed and clarity go, but nobody plays with the whole fullness of expression that Django has.” - **Jerry Garcia** ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/14 "2021-08-20T23:05:56Z")
Where did any of those guys say that Chuck wasn’t a great guitar player? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/15 "2021-08-20T23:19:28Z")
At least on the early recordings, Berry played all the guitar, in single takes without overdubs. That includes the intros to the songs, inspired by the horn intros to pop songs of the day, the rhythm while he was singing, and the many inspired solos he put into the songs. I’m not a musician, I don’t know how good he was on a technical level. But in terms of how it sounded and the impact he had, he was certainly one of the greats. So, of course was Django, in a very different way. Without either of them, music would be significantly poorer. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/16 "2021-08-20T23:24:26Z")
I met him in the late 80’s. You could tell this guy led a _HARD_ life. Looked like a crumpled brown paper sack. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/17 "2021-08-20T23:29:46Z")
Chuck played great guitar for the type of music he made; his style and stagecraft influenced many who came after him. He also played a mean shovel: [![](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51390523277_77b3ee15a0_c.jpg) ](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51390523277_77b3ee15a0_c.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/18 "2021-08-21T00:48:43Z")
> [@peccavi](#): > > > [@Jackmannii](#): > > > > Django Reinhardt wrote zero great rock n’ roll songs. > > So now, the hallmark of a great guitarist is whether they can write a rock 'n roll song? What makes someone a memorable and outstanding figure in popular music is far, far more than merely being a instrumental talent. There are people who worship at the altar of virtuosos. I’m not one of them. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/19 "2021-08-21T01:02:02Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > You are not wrong about him being a brilliant lyricist. For me, the pinnacle is “Nadine.” _I saw her on the corner when she turned and doubled back And started walkin’ toward a coffee colored Cadillac I was pushin’ through the crowd tryin’ to get to where she’s at And I was campaign shouting like a southern diplomat_ Then later _She moves around like a wayward summer breeze, Go, driver, go. Go on, catch her for me, please. Moving through the traffic like a mounted cavalier. Leaning out the taxi window tryin’ to make her hear._ Talk about painting a lyrical picture. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236/20 "2021-08-21T04:50:38Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > What makes someone a memorable and outstanding figure in popular music is far, far more than merely being a instrumental talent. > > There are people who worship at the altar of virtuosos. I’m not one of them. Why are you fighting so hard against the intent of the thread? No one is saying Berry isn’t a memorable and outstanding figure. I don’t see any worshiping either. You are arguing against a point no one has made. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-chuck-berry-a-great-guitar-player/949236.md?page=2)