My experience is that the Dopers’ attitudes and dispositions reflect those in the “real” world. I have read many extroardinarily insightful and intelligent posts on this board; but I have also read many extroardinarily short-sighted and reactionary posts on this board (not that I would have it any other way: there are no I.Q. tests required to participate).
I should probably mention that I am hyper-sensitive to elitism. Just as some people feel that social standing, fame or wealth grants them a “higher status,” so too do the smarter-than-thou set. There is a great scene in “Five Easy Pieces” where Jack Nicholson’s not-so-bright girlfriend drops in on a cocktail party to be derided and scorned by an “intellectual superior” also at the event, and you can see the contempt projected from this person’s face, believing that this “provencial-type” had no right to an opinion. I mention this scene not to draw comparison to the behavior of SDMB, but to illustrate my perception of a type of “superiority” that is all-too seldom challenged.
For instance, my dad: I don’t believe he could articulate an argument very effectively, particularily against any of the intelligentsia. However, I do know the man is a highly principled and responsible guy with a heart of gold. Is he or is the intelligentsia a higher-class of people? By whose measure? Does that measure mean that someone else’s measure is invalid?
I’m being a total buzzkill and am wrecking the party. I’m sorry. In the end, yes, I do like posting and reading the SDMB because there is always good food for thought.
I think that there probably is a genuine elite (by the clinical dictionary definition, rather than an implication of snobbery) here.
There are forces (moderators, unwritten rules of debate etc) at work that select against jerkishness and ignorance; anyone who inhabits the very bottom end of the scale will find themselves compelled to change, if they stubbornly refuse to do so, they will either lose interest and leave or will end up getting banned.
The result is that what you have left is not a simple cross-section sample any more.
Sometimes, after a long time on the board, I’ll go back into the “real world” and I’ve forgotten that it’s not filled with people who are quite as open-minded as here. I’ll hear something racist or homophobic and think, “Damn, we still have a long way to go.”
But at other times I want to throw up my hands and scream, because some of the people on this board who think they’re open-minded are just the opposite.
Overall, though, I’d have to say this board is more literate (the near perfect grammar that dominates is proof of that) and has a greater percentage of learned and intelligent people than most boards. I used to think I was smart, and then I came here.
I don’t know about intelligence or open-mindedness, but I do think there is more accountability here. If you start talking BS, you can be sure that someone, somewhere will call you on it, and if you don’t have the facts to back it up, you’re toast.
Even more importantly, the other posters actually care about whether you can back it up or not. On one of the other message boards I somtimes frequent, 9 times out of 10 asking for a cite will get the response “I’m right, I don’t need to show you anything.” And in the eyes of the other posters, that response ‘wins’ the argument. Here, you could almost hear the derisive laughter coming out from your computer after saying something like that.
Is this group smarter than average? By a good margin.
Find a city with population of less than a quarter million, and without a major university. Read the letters to the editor in the local newspaper. You’ll be looking at average.
Now go to GQ or GD. Compare.
With respect to why, there are a number of contributing factors. One is that fans of the Straight Dope column tend towards bright and iconoclastic to begin with, but otherwise they’re exceedingly diverse. So people who go to Cecil’s column online, and click on any of the links that kick them over here, fit that profile.
Another is that the “fighting ignorance” ethos is strongly held to in forums like GD and GQ, with good logic and links to sources being not just valued, but demanded, by the large majority of posters.
And I’ll enthusiastically second the importance of good moderation. The mods keep debates from degenerating into namecalling, and kick out people who are only here to make a mess of things. We all owe the mods in a big way.
I am not one who’s opinion should count for much as I am relatively new to the forum. That being said I must say that I find the quality of debate here to be superior to any other on-line forum or medium I have ever read. I attribute that in large part to the quality of users here.
This forum is my idea of the Heinlein ideal. It is anarchy, but in a civilized manner. If you have a problem with a user, you call him on it, deal with it like an adult (in most cases), and move on. There is no need for berating, insulting, or belittling. If you are a fool, ignorant, or obtuse the system seeks to automatically “correct” or “enlighten” you. By a larger spectrum, if that could be said about modern society I feel we would all be a little better off. That being said, I oft wonder if the more vocal members here are in real life as steadfast to their beliefs and views. I would like to think so.
I think most members here subscribe to Socrates notion that “The only true knowledge comes from in knowing that you know nothing.” Where that not the case, we would not congregate here, nor would we seek to answer those questions which we all have.
To answer the OP, I think the answer is something is subjective. Yes, there are some incredibly intelligent people here. Yes, there are some remarkably articulate people here. I “personally” agree that the people here are by and large questers of knowledge and “truth”, whatever that may be.
Sadly this is truer than it should be. Most posters would agree that quality is more important than quantity, but not everyone. Your opinion is as valid as anyone else’s IMHO.
I tottally aggree with just about everyone who posted here. and for the sake of making me look stupid, could we please 86 the fact that I said “higher standard” as opposed to… well , I dont really know what it is . It just seems a little more civilized here. And the people here (most of them anyway) may be set in their opinions, but they’re nice enough to listen to yours.
Lab2490, if you want to delete “higher standard” that’s fine by me. The bottom line is - on the SDMB does one tend to find a more “refined” set of topics discussed in a more informed way, using a more mannered approach to debate?
Hmmmm:
A more “refined” set of topics? - well, uh, no. I think that people discuss things more openly, but a lot of that is the by product of a pseudo-anonymous Internet. But we get the whole panoply of topics, including crude and offensive - that’s part of the appeal.
Discussed in a more informed way? - at times, perhaps. By that I mean, because this MB is rooted in knowledge and trivia, it tends to attract people interested in those things, i.e., educated people. So the likelihood that someone with academic expertise in a given area, or at least who has invested a lot of time, goes up. But that person/people might only represent 2% of the people commenting on a given thread, so all bets are off. So there may be more glimmers of light, but there is still a lot of murkiness, too.
Using a more mannered approach to debate? Mangetout (who I also think is great, BTW) has this covered. We have moderators, a tendency towards frontier justice, and the outlet of the BBQ Pit. Is it more mannered? No - but it may be both more edgy and more focused on “hey, offer a cite or shut up”.
And as for Racekarl - well, you were provocative, but I didn’t find your post helpful. The SDMB has a diverse set of people with a diverse set of beliefs. Check GD for that - all the flashpoint issues get represented, with a universe of POV’s about them. Stating that the SDMB leans one way or the other doesn’t ring true to me…
Me too; I got into a ‘moon conspiracy’ discussion once on another board (that terrible Fox programme had been aired the night before and suddenly everyone was an expert on why the moon landings HAD to be fake); I questioned some stupid little point about shadows and somebody actually told me that the burden of proof was on me, because I was the one making the claim that it wasn’t faked… :rolleyes:
I hang out on a few other message boards and/or list serves. I like this one best - of the boards where I don’t really know anyone in real life. I was a member of a very similar, but much smaller listserve (i.e. lots of smart people who talked issues), but left when I finally got sick of the jerks (it was unmoderated, and there was really only one jerk). I’d say that one was actually superior in its intellectual mean - too bad the jerk was tolerated.
(BTW, this board is less moderated than some others I am on - I like the balance. There is nothing worse than spending time typing up a thoughtful response to a post previous to yours, and then have the post you are replying to (and yours, because you quoted it) deleted because the mods found some part of it inappropriate.).
Boards populated mostly by moms are populated mostly by moms - we have few potty training threads going on here - and the ones we have are frankly not very good. But the Iraq threads on the mom boards are horrible!
If you start talking about comparing these people to the people I know in real life - its hard to say. I hate to sound shallow and imply that there is more to a person than their words - but there is. Its hard to compare the people I “read” on these boards to my girlfriends. I also suspect that if we are talking about our self selected friends - we are attracted to the same sorts of people we are attracted to on these boards - I love the intellectualism and wit on these boards - and it isn’t a surprise that you’d find similar intellectualism and wit among my friends.