# Do you consider yourself a feminist? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 18, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457 "2012-12-18T21:42:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Made_French_Toast_For_You)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/201 "2012-12-21T00:59:43Z")
**colander** , you just made me very happy. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/202 "2012-12-21T01:13:34Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > I suppose it’s unladylike to be condescending then? Or is it your contention that feminism actually has a chance in hell of silencing men? Oh wait, just silencing one man at a time when they can’t come up with an answer quick enough. Oh, how horrible of us feminists, damaging the fragile male ego. Okay, now you’re being obnoxious. Are you incapable of imagining that a specific person would misuse the concept of feminism, or do you just think that such a misuse is an acceptable act? What’s exactly your damage with what I said? Try to phrase it straightforwardly, even if doing so makes it plain that you’re not saying anything that’s actually sensible. Phrases like “fragile male ego” don’t actually reflect on me, you know; they reflect on you. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/203 "2012-12-21T02:23:14Z")
> [@colander](#): > > It was just last week that I went down to my job as a grinder-loader at the Pork Sausage Factory And Rickety Ladder Warehouse when I was greeted at the door by a Navy recruiting officer. One look in his sorrowful face and I knew what he had come for. > > “Sorry, kid.” he said, a single tear sliding down his face. “You’ve been picked for the draft.” > > I knew someday that it would come to this. I swore I would be brave. But I had one request to make of him. “Will you do me a favor, Sir, before you send me off to fight those bloodthirsty Australians?” > > “I’ll do my best, ensign, so shoot.” > > “Tell my ex-wife she’s a dirty skank.” > > Days later, my entire battalion was sunk by the enemy’s new Drop Bear Stealth Torpedoes. They ordered me to man the lifeboats, and man them I did. 15 boats to hold 30 passengers… and I was number 34. I loaded a toddler and his dumpy, unrapeworthy mom into the last vessel and turned to face the setting sun. > > Listen for me when the coastal winds blow. Back in real life… I am standing before the family court. I never thought it would come to this. I always tried to be the best husband and father I could be. Alas, June and Bernie hit it off at work a little too well and she demands that we split forever because I don’t understand her quite the way he does. I can’t stand the idea of another another man moving into my house and helping to raise my children. I just hope that she doesn’t force them to call him ‘Daddy’ but I have no control over that. She says she is pregnant now and isn’t sure who the father is. I need to know because it will affect things in the long-term but have no effect on the legal situation at hand. It won’t be so bad though. I can get a small apartment a second job. That should be enough to pay for child support and alimony even if I have to skip all non-essential items for the next couple of decades. I have to do that and remain employed for as much money as possible or I could go to jail and wind up in the papers. I can make it work with the kids even if I am not sure sure if the new addition is really mine. Every other weekend sounds pretty good because frankly, that is going to be about all the time I have off working to support Mom, the kids, and her new lover. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/204 "2012-12-21T02:46:05Z")
You forgot, “And therefore I’m not a feminist.” ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/205 "2012-12-21T02:47:58Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > You forgot, “And therefore I’m not a feminist.” Oh hell no. I love real women way too much to ever be associated with modern-day feminism. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/206 "2012-12-21T02:49:42Z")
Yeah, “real women” aren’t feminists. Just those dirty feminazis, right? ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/207 "2012-12-21T02:53:32Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I am standing before the family court. I never thought it would come to this. I always tried to be the best husband and father I could be. > > Alas, June and Bernie hit it off at work a little too well and she demands that we split forever because I don’t understand her quite the way he does. I can’t stand the idea of another another man moving into my house and helping to raise my children. I just hope that she doesn’t force them to call him ‘Daddy’ but I have no control over that. She says she is pregnant now and isn’t sure who the father is. I need to know because it will affect things in the long-term but have no effect on the legal situation at hand. > > It won’t be so bad though. I can get a small apartment a second job. That should be enough to pay for child support and alimony even if I have to skip all non-essential items for the next couple of decades. I have to do that and remain employed for as much money as possible or I could go to jail and wind up in the papers. > > I can make work with the kids even if I am not sure sure if the new addition is really mine. Every other weekend sounds pretty good because frankly, that is going to be about all the time I off for working to support Mom, the kids, and her new lover. All this and more whirled through my frenzied brain as the cold saltwater filled my lungs. Flash! There was the cackling family court judge declaring I was never to see my children again, all the while urinating into my open mouth. Flash! Staring up homeless at the mansion my cruel ex built with the alimony, my teeth chattering like spastic maracas in the cold night rain. My ex-wife at the window, she’s holding something, spreading it out so I can see, an odd-looking blanket, no, a jacket, wish I still had a jacket, what are those buttons made of they’re so small and white oh my god theyre teeth theyre his baby teeth and oh god woman what did you do to him _what have you made from my son_ The end is cold and wet and welcoming. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/208 "2012-12-21T02:57:46Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Yeah, “real women” aren’t feminists. Just those dirty feminazis, right? There might be a few but I haven’t that seen much evidence of it in this thread. The successful women that I know quite well don’t associate with it either. It is filled logical, emotional, and factual fallacies. Most successful and effective women are much better than that and don’t fall for the mid-control BS component even if they do strive for equality overall. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/209 "2012-12-21T03:01:45Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > There might be a few but I haven’t that seen much evidence of it in this thread. The successful women that I know quite well don’t associate with it either. It is filled logical, emotional, and factual fallacies. Most successful and effective women are much better than that and don’t fall for the mid-control BS component even if they do strive for equality overall. So the 106 women in this thread that identify as feminists are not successful, are illogical, emotional, aren’t effective, and are victims of mind control BS? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/210 "2012-12-21T03:06:07Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > So the 106 women in this thread that identify as feminists are not successful, are illogical, emotional, aren’t effective, and are victims of mind control BS? Compared to the ones I associate with among friends, family, and coworkers, the chances great that is true statement. You just don’t see many successful women in mega-corps or successful single businesswomen in the top percentiles of income believing the same things. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/211 "2012-12-21T03:20:46Z")
I should add that I don’t think every female in this thread is emotionally crazy. There are plenty examples of that but you also get good ones like **Even sven** who is a great example of a smart women that provides a well thought out view on the subject. The others, not so much and are probably a liability to feminism as a whole just because of the shrieking, predictable responses, and seeming inability to think for themselves outside of the pseudo-religious cult. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/212 "2012-12-21T03:23:19Z")
Here’s something else for the progressive feminists in this thread to make light of. More male privilege [Enjoy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_StCzStBy0) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/213 "2012-12-21T03:26:19Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Compared to the ones I associate with among friends, family, and coworkers, the chances great that is true statement. You just don’t see many successful women in mega-corps or successful single businesswomen in the top percentiles of income believing the same things. …because one of the best indicators for rationality is being super-wealthy. Excellent point. As annoying as I find attitudes like **Two Many Cats** , this kind of silliness is even worse. And **Ibanez** , your bizarre advice about avoiding marriage? Blech. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/214 "2012-12-21T03:34:55Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > Here’s something else for the progressive feminists in this thread to make light of. > > More male privilege [Enjoy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_StCzStBy0) Interesting sympathy porn there. How about this [one with screaming little girls getting their genitals mutilated with glass](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0NuCMKaRpY)? Make sure you watch the whole thing now. Here’s the interesting thing about being human, friend: I can care about suicidal soldiers and tortured little girls at _the same time._ I’m not sure what, exactly, you’re trying to prove here, but give it a rest. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/215 "2012-12-21T03:49:56Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Interesting sympathy porn there. How about this [one with screaming little girls getting their genitals mutilated with glass](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0NuCMKaRpY)? Make sure you watch the whole thing now. > > Here’s the interesting thing about being human, friend: I can care about suicidal soldiers and tortured little girls at _the same time._ I’m not sure what, exactly, you’re trying to prove here, but give it a rest. First, month’s been shitty enough, so not watching either video. Second, I think you’re totally right here: any effort to diminish other folks’ troubles by saying, “but things are bad here, too!” is irrational and dumb. Which is why the word “feminist” is fine, just as the word “gay rights advocate” or any other rights-ist is fine. Feminism focuses specifically on eliminating inequalities for women, but that in no way implies that inequalities for men are acceptable. Treating it as though it implies such a thing is, again, irrational and dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/216 "2012-12-21T03:55:33Z")
This is not a knock against the poll, since it’s an interesting question in and of itself, but I think that the semantics are clouding the real issue. If you instead ask “Do you support equal rights for women?” there wouldn’t be much debate in modern society. That the idea is no longer radical within Western culture means the feminist programme has largely succeeded. Of course there are vestiges of the old way of thinking still, but anyone attempting to hold back equality for women (e.g. the Church) is simply prolonging the inevitable. It’s for this reason that the radicals can now co-opt the term “feminist”–the sane parts of the ideology have been subsumed into mainstream “common-sense” thought. And it really doesn’t matter much what someone calls themselves. If you’re ensuring that the world is a better and fairer place for others, isn’t that the important part? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/217 "2012-12-21T04:04:04Z")
Of course it matters how we identify ourselves-- that’s why there’s 5 pages of discussion about it in this thread. Your last point is a good one, but it doesn’t somehow change the fact that we as humans like to label ourselves and that’s what this thread is about. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/218 "2012-12-21T04:16:01Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Okay, now you’re being obnoxious. Are you incapable of imagining that a specific person would misuse the concept of feminism, or do you just think that such a misuse is an acceptable act? What’s exactly your damage with what I said? Try to phrase it straightforwardly, even if doing so makes it plain that you’re not saying anything that’s actually sensible. Phrases like “fragile male ego” don’t actually reflect on me, you know; they reflect on you. It’s all been discussed that _some_ feminists have more extreme opinions about feminism than others, and that their admittedly strident tone may cause some men to become defensive. I acknowledge that. But really, some of the men in this thread are becoming positively unglued at the thought that _women_ might actually have the temerity to say _mean things._ Of course, it’s perfectly okay for men to bitch and moan about how they have to give up seats on lifeboats, like that happens every week. If you actually read my post, you would’ve seen from the quote that I was directing the term “fragile male ego” to another poster who seemed to be aghast that a woman might be condescending. I’ll be as condescending as I want to, thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/219 "2012-12-21T04:21:04Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Of course it matters how we identify ourselves-- that’s why there’s 5 pages of discussion about it in this thread. Your last point is a good one, but it doesn’t somehow change the fact that we as humans like to label ourselves and that’s what this thread is about. Like I said, it’s an interesting question. But some people are acting like it’s an affront to personally shun the label _even if you support the agenda_. Or that it says you are blind to “male privilege” or the benefactor of it, or some other equally odious assumption. Not only do I reject the label, I reject the assumptions made about my character and life experiences merely because I reject the label. That some “feminists” see it as appropriate to judge people based solely on how they choose to define themselves is an ironic twist. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/220 "2012-12-21T04:28:50Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Is that boss going to want to cut off my clitoris with a piece of glass and with no anesthesia? What about not let me own land or vote? Are they going to tell me it’s not all my fault if someone rapes me when I’m walking to my car at night? If so, they can’t be that bad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457.md?page=12)