# Do you consider yourself a feminist? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 18, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457 "2012-12-18T21:42:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/301 "2012-12-23T05:07:39Z")
I am just not buying the feminist rhetoric for the simple reason that a lot of women that posted in thread are absolutely brutal to other females and everyone else in other contexts. There are spin-off boards from this one that I don’t think I am allowed to link to but it is some of the most vile things you will ever read even by internet standards. A lot of the so-called feminists here are some are the major participants and you know who you are. The only ones I respect out of this discussion are **Even Sven** and **olivesmarch4th**. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/302 "2012-12-23T06:52:41Z")
I, for one, am heartbroken by this revelation. Thank you for letting us know who you respect, **Shagnasty** , we were all genuinely curious. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/303 "2012-12-23T14:21:57Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I am just not buying the feminist rhetoric for the simple reason that a lot of women that posted in thread are absolutely brutal to other females and everyone else in other contexts. I have rarely seen a more profound non sequitur than that. Simple reasons aren’t necessarily legitimate reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/304 "2012-12-25T01:10:34Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I am just not buying the feminist rhetoric for the simple reason that a lot of women that posted in thread are absolutely brutal to other females and everyone else in other contexts. There are spin-off boards from this one that I don’t think I am allowed to link to but it is some of the most vile things you will ever read even by internet standards. A lot of the so-called feminists here are some are the major participants and you know who you are. The only ones I respect out of this discussion are **Even Sven** and **olivesmarch4th**. Hahaaa, what on earth are you babbling incoherently about? You honestly think feminists can’t be assholes or petty gossips? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/305 "2012-12-25T02:42:22Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Hahaaa, what on earth are you babbling incoherently about? You honestly think feminists can’t be assholes or petty gossips? Oh no, that is a given but there some extreme hypocrisy going on within the ranks of the hard-line feminists. They claim one set of ideals and then do the exact opposite. They demonize men for comments that aren’t nearly as bad as they do among themselves in private forums. If you don’t believe, PM me and I will show you some of the most vile things you will ever read by some of the major contributors here against other women. My mother always taught me that her biggest obstacles to her success were some women and not men I love women in general especially my mother, grandmothers, coworkers, my daughters, and even my ex-wife. I truly believe hard-line feminism is just another manifestation of other disorders that aren’t as socially acceptable so they use that as outlet. They maybe severely overweight, bulimic, or have some other disorder that they need to assign blame to and men in general are an acceptable excuse for that. I have no problem whatsoever with moderate feminists that truly believe in fairness and equality but that is not the real goal of many people in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/306 "2012-12-25T03:16:42Z")
I totally know what you mean! One time a seagull stole my hot dog and that’s why I’ll never trust a mestizo ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/307 "2012-12-25T03:54:25Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > \ If you don’t believe, PM me and I will show you some of the most vile things you will ever read by some of the major contributors here against other women. \ No. Don’t show me shit. I don’t want to look in grimey corners because I don’t like to find sludge. Don’t go to those threads or boards if it is going to cloud your thinking. Feminism is a movement…it doesn’t encompass an entire being and make them incapable of being mean. What if I found out that Martin Luther King liked to sling around the word Honkey or Cracka when he got angry with white people…would I dismiss the civil rights movement? No. No, I would not. And I wouldn’t dismiss Dr. King as not a true civil rights champion. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/308 "2012-12-25T05:09:19Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Oh no, that is a given but there some extreme hypocrisy going on within the ranks of the hard-line feminists. They claim one set of ideals and then do the exact opposite. They demonize men for comments that aren’t nearly as bad as they do among themselves in private forums. If you don’t believe, PM me and I will show you some of the most vile things you will ever read by some of the major contributors here against other women. Rather, show us the hard-line feminist that ever suggested that women couldn’t be brutal to women. That feminist would be putting forward an argument almost as laughably idiotic as, say, an argument that feminists were really just fat or bulimic or something. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/309 "2012-12-25T10:52:57Z")
NSFW [Take a knee](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNSt3wJXZk0) **Shagnasty** ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/310 "2012-12-26T10:20:51Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > NSFW [Take a knee](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNSt3wJXZk0) **Shagnasty** Finally watched that, and realized you’re implying Shagnasty has won an argument here. Hooookay, boss. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/311 "2012-12-27T07:37:23Z")
I never really understood or empathized with other guys. Most of my friends were female, and all I ever heard from them were stories of neglect, abuse, or piggishness. I empathize with women a lot more because rare is the cause where a woman is a horrible person to me, but common is the case that a man is. But that’s just how it got started. Now it’s less personal and more of a philosophy. Growing up as a bit of a bookish nerd, I read encyclopedias and history books for fun, outside of school. Learned at a young age how women have been treated throughout history, and how only recently have they been granted rights comparable to men, some places on earth and not others, and how they still fight for equal pay, equal representation in positions of power, and the right over their own body. You factor in the instances of rape and murder, mostly men doing it to women, and it’s hard not to be sympathetic to women’s causes. I can’t know and can’t see the world through their eyes, but I can still learn and appreciate, and stop being part of the problem. As such, I think I can safely identify as a feminist. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457/312 "2012-12-27T16:40:49Z")
I’ve been weighing my thoughts on this subject off and on over the holiday season, trying to separate my feelings over my marriage ending and how the system is stacked against me in this situation, and the fact that historically, it’s been women getting the short end of the stick. It has been an interesting diversion from all the other shit going on in my life, although I can’t say I’ve actually reached any firm conclusions. I would like to thank everyone for their opinions, and giving me a chance to explore my own. > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > In fact, it’s generally the anti-feminists who don’t want women drafted. NOW came out with a policy statement that said either both sexes should be subject to the draft, or neither sex should be subject. Mind you, this was some decades ago. And this issue is STILL brought up, like it’s some sort of feminist doublethink. Who said it had to be women’s fault that there is a double standard? Of course men are part of the oppression of men. The same way that women tend to be part of the oppression of women. Slut-shaming is primarily a female thing. Does that mean that all feminists who complain about it are hypocrites? > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > IME, when men start talking like this, it’s meant to belittle any problems that women face. And when women start talking like this, it’s to belittle any problems that men face. See how that works? This just sounds like a polite, pre-emptive, “shut the fuck up” no matter which side says it. And for the record, I’ve tried to be fair in my postings about the fact that it hasn’t been all sweetness and light for women’s rights in my postings. So either you’re arguing with someone else, or you haven’t read what I’ve written, and are knee-jerk responding to me. > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Most men who do this expect women to shut the fuck up when men (the important people) are talking) and keep a respectful silence. You know, much as I want to slam this idea and move on, I have to admit that I’ve seen it in action. Not often, but I have seen it. I should point out that most of the men who hold these opinions are over the age of 50, and could universally be called old-school types, who tend to have many old-school opinions. Some attitudes can only change when those who hold them are gone, and this might be one of those. > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Some men do want to engage in a meaningful dialog…but in most cases, it’s men who say “But men get drafted!” in response to a listing of female disadvantages. The thing is, yeah, men get drafted…but that’s mostly men who are doing the drafting, and men who are refusing to make women subject to the draft, and men who refuse to allow women to take combat roles. And it’s women who are cutting off their daughters clits and mutilating them for life. Does it really matter who the fuck is enforcing the double standards in our culture? Does it really make a flying fuck of a difference on whether the double standard exists, and how fair it is? And the draft is only one minor, almost obsolete issue. I brought it up instead of others because I can be rational about it. There are other, more tangible, double standards in our society, like the ones found in family courts, that I’m not rational about, so I’m refraining from discussing them. > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > If men want to discuss the discrimination that they face, perhaps they shouldn’t try to take over a discussion that’s already in progress. This is absolutely a dismissal. Who the fuck gave only the feminists the right to discuss gender issues? By claiming that this discussion is in progress, and that us men aren’t invited, you’re only weakening your cause by spitting in the face of potential allies. Do you wonder why some men aren’t lined up to support the feminist movement? We’re told that we have to listen, that our opinions and experiences are irrelevant, and if we open our mouths, we’re taking over the conversation. Even before a single argument is laid out, we’re already wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-consider-yourself-a-feminist/644457.md?page=15)