# Do you dress and groom for yourself or for others? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 21, 2023, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348 "2023-07-21T12:19:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/21 "2023-07-21T15:19:28Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I generally prefer that people not notice me - or if they do, that they just have some benign neutral impression You do recognize that that is choosing your clothing with how others see it in mind? Not dressing for yourself? I personally am, well, both. Mostly I like to not be too noticed but not completely. First importance is that I feel comfortable. Physically. If I am going out with my wife second is for her. She gets veto power. Mostly. But her comments are otherwise ignored. To work there is a certain costume/uniform element. Fun ties and/or socks are pretty standard for the image I want to send. I enjoy being a bit different without calling attention. I am, for example, waiting for “new” glasses to come in: an antique pince-nez frame. I had one before and I did enjoy getting compliments about them. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/22 "2023-07-21T15:22:51Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > If it were up to me, I’d wear jeans and T-shirts everyday. Who is it up to, if not you? I wear jeans and t-shirts most days. I have to wear a suit when I’m in court. Or the top half when I’m in a zoom hearing or trial. Other than that, It’s pretty much _aging slob_. My wife gave me a tip, if I have to ask her if a shirt has too many stains or too many holes, then I shouldn’t wear it to work. I do have a few items I can wear at nicer restaurants or business meetings with people who expect a bit more from me. Some grey khakis, for example, and a variety of shirts. I don’t want to completely flaunt social norms. That’s both for me and to please my wife. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/23 "2023-07-21T15:24:18Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Who is it up to, if not you? My bosses at work. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/24 "2023-07-21T15:29:05Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > My bosses at work. I hadn’t considered that. Makes sense. bastards! ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/25 "2023-07-21T15:32:18Z")
I’m conscious of my appearance and dress to look my best. I refuse to wear suits. But my casual clothes are clean and fit me properly. I won’t be featured in a people of Walmart article. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/26 "2023-07-21T15:32:58Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > You do recognize that that is choosing your clothing with how others see it in mind? Not dressing for yourself? Good point. > [@InternetLegend](#): > > Speaking as an older woman who used to be a reasonably attractive young one, I think men often don’t understand the subtleties of how women have to exist in the world. Thanks. I DO try to better understand that. But I continue to find myself confused by the attractive young woman who wears a low cut sleeveless top, short skirt, and sandals to a professional workplace, and then profess to not want their appearance noticed/judged. It is very possible to look attractive and well groomed, without dressing too “provocatively.” And - of course - there is no excuse for the wolf whistler or obvious leerer. I feel similarly about a very large person who chooses to expose a great deal of flesh or in spandex and complains about body shaming. Or some young person with a backward ballcap and pants hanging off his ass wanting to be treated with great respect and deference. I try my best to treat all of those people equally and respectfully. (Hell, I generally try to have as little interaction with all of them as possible.) But I find it somewhat odd for someone to dress in a way that anyone could predict would likely elicit certain responses (at least from some subset of people you might encounter), and then complain when those responses occur. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Nowadays, that mostly means dressing in one of several named aesthetics that I like - Steampunk, _Mori Kei_, Goth, Goblincore, Dark Academia, that sort of thing. I spent most of my youth/younger adulthood doing the same. I’d welcome if you would elaborate. I’m not sure exactly what all of those terms describe, but do you just wake-up and say to yourself, “Today feels like a Steampunk kinda day!” And do you care if your attire elicits reactions from strangers - either favorably or un-? Sometimes, when I see someone dressed in a specific unusual manner, I wonder if they are in part wishing to signal their existence to like-minded people. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/27 "2023-07-21T15:36:48Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I wear jeans and t-shirts most days. I have to wear a suit when I’m in court. Or the top half when I’m in a zoom hearing or trial. Other than that, It’s pretty much _aging slob_. I used to wear a white shirt and tie under the robe for hearing days, leaving the neck clasp of the robe unfastened. And Dockers for non-hrg days. But I’ve dropped to jeans and a polo, fastening the top clasp of the robe. Doubt that woulda happened if Covid hadn’t brought on as many telephone/video hearings. I would wear more buttoned shirts, but I don’t want to mess with dry-cleaning or cause my wife (who does our laundry) the extra hassle. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/28 "2023-07-21T15:41:42Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I used to wear a white shirt and tie under the robe for hearing days, leaving the neck clasp of the robe unfastened. And Dockers for non-hrg days. But I’ve dropped to jeans and a polo, fastening the top clasp of the robe We had a Seattle Municipal Court judge who we noticed was wearing jeans under his robe on the bench. After court, I ask him, “Judge x, can we wear jeans in court?” He replied, “I don’t give a damn what you wear.” Pro tip on robes (Dinsdale already knows this): Take off your jacket before putting the robe on. The first time I sat as a Judge Pro Tem, I just put the robe on over my suit. My god, it was hot. I never made that mistake again. Also explains why many courtrooms are so cold. Judges get hot up there in their robes. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/29 "2023-07-21T15:57:10Z")
I don’t navel gaze about these things. It’s probably close to 50-50. Why choose one? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/30 "2023-07-21T16:09:55Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I’d welcome if you would elaborate. I’m not sure exactly what all of those terms describe [Steampunk](https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Steampunk#Fashion) _[Mori Kei](https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Mori_Kei#Fashion)_ (or more specifically, [Mori Boy](https://j-fashion.fandom.com/wiki/Mori_Boy)) Goth (more specifically, [Trad Goth](https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Trad_Goth#Fashion) of an 80s bent) [Goblincore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goblincore) [Dark Academia](https://cottagecoregirl.com/dark-academia-guys/) > [@Dinsdale](#): > > do you just wake-up and say to yourself, “Today feels like a Steampunk kinda day!” Yes. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > And do you care if your attire elicits reactions from strangers No > [@Dinsdale](#): > > Sometimes, when I see someone dressed in a specific unusual manner, I wonder if they are in part wishing to signal their existence to like-minded people. I have other avenues for finding like-minded people that don’t rely on visual signalling. By the time I’m _arriving at_ e.g. the Goth club or the early music concert or the fungus-focused hike, I _already_ know I’m with like-minded people, regardless of what they’re wearing. That and I’ll dress Mori Boy to the Goth club, or wear Goth to go for a nature walk, so “like-minded” is a very broad church there. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/31 "2023-07-21T16:20:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Dinsdale](#): > > > > do you just wake-up and say to yourself, “Today feels like a Steampunk kinda day!” > > Yes. In that respect, your life sound much richer than mine. I just wake up every morning and feel like “me.” ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/32 "2023-07-21T16:24:46Z")
I notice and am judgemental of men in their 60s (my age) who dress in shorts, polo shirts, and athletic shoes outside of a ball park or shopping mall. I interpret that garb as much a statement as any other. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/33 "2023-07-21T16:28:19Z")
I just really, really _like_ clothes, especially ones with interesting colours, textures and cuts. Jeans and polos just aren’t going to cut it for that. It’s the fashion equivalent of the “I eat only for fuel” side, versus my “taking less than 30 minutes to eat is a wasted meal” side, in this thread: > [@How much time do you spend preparing and eating an average meal](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-much-time-do-you-spend-preparing-and-eating-an-average-meal/986455/31): > > On average, about an hour to 90 minutes prep+cooking. But the long tail of that is … [very long](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-complicated-meal-youve-ever-prepared/980588/25) And a meal eaten in less than 30 minutes is a meal wasted. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/34 "2023-07-21T16:28:27Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#): > > I notice and am judgemental of men in their 60s (my age) who dress in shorts, polo shirts, and athletic shoes outside of a ball park or shopping mall. What judgement are you making? Cause, although I don’t wear shorts typically, the polo shirts and athletic shoes (plus jeans) are my daily fare. I won’t be offended but now I am curious what people might be thinking of me. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/35 "2023-07-21T16:30:58Z")
The shorts make the ensemble, so I would withhold judgement in your case! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/36 "2023-07-21T16:34:18Z")
Myself. That others occasionally get to bask in the aura of my beauty is just their good luck. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/37 "2023-07-21T16:45:31Z")
Do you really mean “anywhere”? Why would you judge someone who dressed like that to go to the bank , or a doctor appointment or motor vehicles? ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/38 "2023-07-21T16:54:26Z")
Whenever anyone goes out in public they are sending a message to others with their clothes. If they believe they aren’t, then the message they are sending, whether they know it or not, is: “I don’t give a fuck what you think about my clothes”. Clothes are precise social cues in every society. To believe they are not is a very modern affectation. I have barn-cleaning, hiking, riding, and gardening clothes, which are all focused entirely on practicality. Few people see me doing any of these things. Riding, particularly, has specialized gear which all has reasons. When I go out to do errands, I try to be clean and decent, basically. Since all of the previously mentioned activities are inherently dirty, it usually means a whole different wardrobe, which is much like the working clothes, only not stained, ripped, and worn out. I also have church clothes, which are modest, pretty, dresses and skirts, by and large, not because that’s the dress code – churches are just as casual as anywhere else – but because to me it puts me in the right mood, represents the special respect due to the day, and because it’s a bit of fun. And I have a few sets of Going Out clothes, which frankly get very little use. But I’m all set if I want to go to the opera, or a fancy restaurant, or even, God forbid, a gala. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/39 "2023-07-21T17:00:07Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#): > > I notice and am judgemental of men in their 60s (my age) who dress in shorts, polo shirts, and athletic shoes outside of a ball park or shopping mall. I’m in my 60s. Tonight we’ll be going to a brewery. I’ll be wearing shorts (as I do all year except for December, January, and February), a t-shirt, and slides. You’d likely be judgemental of me and all the others similarly dressed. I’m judgemental of men/women wearing MAGAhats. If I’m at work and a MAGAhat wearing person needs a favor, I explain that no, that would be against policy. Someone asking for the same rule-bending without the hat and I’m happy to bend a rule. > [@Ulfreida](#): > > “I don’t give a fuck what you think about my clothes”. I guess that’s what I’m thinking?, although I don’t actually even waste time/effort thinking that exactly. I just put on what is comfortable and doesn’t offend my gf. As far as grooming/body odor/etc, I am extremely conscious of cleanliness and such. There is never a stray hair peaking out of a nostril or ear. I shower 1-2 times a day even if I haven’t gotten dirty or sweaty. But that’s all for me, it is how I feel good. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348/40 "2023-07-21T17:08:54Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I’m in my 60s. Tonight we’ll be going to a brewery. I’ll be wearing shorts (as I do all year except for December, January, and February), a t-shirt, and slides. You’d likely be judgemental of me and all the others similarly dressed. Not at all. I think that’s perfect for visiting a brewery. I also think you mistake me. I am not saying I disapprove of people who say, with their clothes, I don’t give a fuck what you think about what I wear. (which of course may not be anything like as in your face as I made it sound, but merely indifference). I just note it as part of their public persona, just as I did the woman I saw in the supermarket today wearing short shorts, leopard print flip flops, and purple glitter toenail polish. In fact I briefly tried and failed to imagine myself wearing that. Made me smile. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-dress-and-groom-for-yourself-or-for-others/987348.md?page=3)