# Do you ever not turn right on red? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 15, 2012, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983 "2012-05-15T13:15:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/81 "2012-05-17T21:39:11Z")
I’m not going to get worked up about it. Allowing for right turn on red is simply a way to avoid unnecessarily impeding traffic flow. There are enough left lane dawdlers that I am not surprised people would intentionally be impediments in this case too. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/82 "2012-05-17T21:48:04Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > I’m not going to get worked up about it. Allowing for right turn on red is simply a way to avoid unnecessarily impeding traffic flow. There are enough left lane dawdlers that I am not surprised people would intentionally be impediments in this case too. For the record, I would never intentionally be an impediment. I just don’t always feel safe to go. When someone honks, it distracts me from doing the very thing they want me to do. The more they honk, the less likely I am to be clear-headed enough to turn. I don’t ever just sit there because I can. I sit there because I don’t want to die in a fiery wreck, or run over a pedestrian you probably can’t see. That said, what usually happens is that I turn in cases I ordinarily wouldn’t, before anyone honks at me, simply because I am nervous about people honking at me. My people-pleasing nature extends to the road, too. I live in New Jersey, by the way, where honks are as common as turn signals. Just kidding. Nobody uses turn signals in New Jersey. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/83 "2012-05-17T22:05:37Z")
I do make the right on red 99% of the time. I may absent mindedly stay stopped at the red if I am looking for something (quite rare). I do however loathe people who make the right-on-red when it is unsafe to do so. In case any of you out there are one of the many nitwits I’m referring to, it is not a freaking contest between you, the potential right-on-red turner, and me, the straight driver who has the fucking right-of-way over you - at all times. If you do anything jerkish that cause me to change lanes or hit the brakes then you are in the wrong and are an asshole extraordinaire. There; I feel better. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/84 "2012-05-17T22:17:44Z")
Am I the only person using the term “free right” here? I thought everyone called it that. I think they do in Seattle but now I’m starting to wonder. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/85 "2012-05-17T23:59:44Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > We get it; you get a power trip over controlling someone else (by not moving your ass at the red light). We get it, **sparky** - whatever you’re doing is far more important than the safety and/or convenience of others. Try some decaf and leave 10 minutes earlier in the morning. You’ll have less stress and most likely be a happier person. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/86 "2012-05-18T00:35:25Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > :rolleyes: > > We get it; you get a power trip over controlling someone else (by not moving your ass at the red light). > > I salute you, you magnificent example of humanhood! > > (BTW: kindly fuck off) Usually, when I don’t turn right immediately at a red, there’s a reason. Most commonly there’s a car coming which you might not see from your vantage point. ---
**Author:** ![sunstone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunstone/32/3372_2.png) [@sunstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunstone)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/87 "2012-05-18T02:13:01Z")
Basically this is a flawed poll. As pointed out, there are situations where it is illegal to turn right on a red regardless of oncoming traffic. So where does my “Turn right on red if legal and safe” belong? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/88 "2012-05-18T05:26:02Z")
> [@california\_jobcase](#): > > Right turn on red is an option here. Sometimes I do not choose this option for various reasons- finding a radio station, adjusting a seat or steering wheel, or just annoying the soccer mom in the giant SUV with a cell phone clamped to her ear who’s been riding my tail for ten blocks. It sounds like you are engaging in [obstructionist driving.](http://www.drdriving.org/scenes/ae4.html) > [@](#): > > By not proceeding when allowed, you are being obstructionist. Your act of not proceeding when you can is a hostile act to those behind you. As far as I understand, that actually can be illegal. Once again, we are NOT talking about people who are holding off on turning on red because it is unsafe; we’re talking about people who decline to make a right turn on red when it is legal and safe to do so. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/89 "2012-05-18T10:43:34Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Am I the only person using the term “free right” here? I thought everyone called it that. I think they do in Seattle but now I’m starting to wonder. Never heard of it. I’ve lived in NY, Cali, Chicago, and Kansas. Might it be a Canadian thing, that has dribbled down into Seattle like poutine cheese dribbling down the side of a bowl? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/90 "2012-05-18T13:18:14Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > There are seriously a lot of inconsiderate assholes in this world. Yep, there sure are. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/91 "2012-05-18T14:11:38Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > It sounds like you are engaging in [obstructionist driving.](http://www.drdriving.org/scenes/ae4.html) As far as I understand, that actually can be illegal. > > Once again, we are NOT talking about people who are holding off on turning on red because it is unsafe; we’re talking about people who decline to make a right turn on red when it is legal and safe to do so. Part of the problem is everyone has a different idea of what safe means. I will not pull out into traffic if it means anyone has to slow down or change lanes to avoid me. Plenty of people do just that though and think it’s safe. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/92 "2012-05-18T17:15:43Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Am I the only person using the term “free right” here? I thought everyone called it that. I think they do in Seattle but now I’m starting to wonder. There is such a thing as a “free right turn” in California, but it means something different. It’s where you can turn right on red without even having to stop. Typically there’s a special right turning lane, to the right of all the traffic lights. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/93 "2012-05-18T17:18:35Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > It sounds like you are engaging in obstructionist driving. As far as I understand, that actually can be illegal. > > Once again, we are NOT talking about people who are holding off on turning on red because it is unsafe; we’re talking about people who decline to make a right turn on red when it is legal and safe to do so. I remember the TV ads in Michigan when _right on red_ was first made legal explicitly said drivers could wait for the green. So unless the law has changed, it’s not the same as obstructionist driving. (FWIW, I will turn on red, and steam silently behind someone who doesn’t.) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/94 "2012-05-18T18:08:45Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > I remember the TV ads in Michigan when _right on red_ was first made legal explicitly said drivers could wait for the green. So unless the law has changed, it’s not the same as obstructionist driving. (FWIW, I will turn on red, and steam silently behind someone who doesn’t.) But why are people waiting for the green? Right turn on red is legal - they’re not afraid of getting a ticket. It’s safe to go - it isn’t a blind intersection, they can see traffic coming for miles. If they’re waiting for the green and not proceeding because they’re teaching the drivers behind them a lesson, that is indeed obstructionist driving. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/95 "2012-05-18T18:17:59Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > But why are people waiting for the green? Right turn on red is legal - they’re not afraid of getting a ticket. It’s safe to go - it isn’t a blind intersection, they can see traffic coming for miles. If they’re waiting for the green and not proceeding because they’re teaching the drivers behind them a lesson, that is indeed obstructionist driving. Not to speak for Zen, but in my case, at this one intersection I often still don’t feel it’s safe. There is just not enough site distance, and if you mix in pedestrians as well it’s just a bad idea. (I’m really surprised it’s allowed there). Again, different people have a different perception of safe. If they are doing it to ‘punish’ yes that’s wrong. And dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/96 "2012-05-18T18:26:03Z")
Outside Quebec, check the licence plate. The driver might be mis-remembering. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/97 "2012-05-18T18:31:59Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > But why are people waiting for the green? Right turn on red is legal - they’re not afraid of getting a ticket. It’s safe to go - it isn’t a blind intersection, they can see traffic coming for miles. If they’re waiting for the green and not proceeding because they’re teaching the drivers behind them a lesson, that is indeed obstructionist driving. But if it’s not required to turn and not illegal to not go (as sitting at a green would be). So who cares what motivation of standing still at a red light is? It maybe karmicly bad, and not a nice attitude, but dangerous? How? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/98 "2012-05-18T18:44:55Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > But if it’s not required to turn and not illegal to not go (as sitting at a green would be). So who cares what motivation of standing still at a red light is? It maybe karmicly bad, and not a nice attitude, but dangerous? How? If you’re doing it to teach a driver behind you a lesson, you’re escalating road rage. If you’re doing it because you don’t care about any drivers waiting behind you, you’re probably creating road rage. You’re not responsible for how other drivers respond to what you do, but if you’re doing something that you know will piss people off deliberately, it’s disingenuous to pretend that you didn’t play a part in the situation you’ve created. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/99 "2012-05-18T18:54:45Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > If you’re doing it to teach a driver behind you a lesson, you’re escalating road rage. If you’re doing it because you don’t care about any drivers waiting behind you, you’re probably creating road rage. You’re not responsible for how other drivers respond to what you do, but if you’re doing something that you know will piss people off deliberately, it’s disingenuous to pretend that you didn’t play a part in the situation you’ve created. When someone honks and flashes their lights, do you also see them as trying to piss off other drivers deliberately and contributing to road rage? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983/100 "2012-05-18T18:56:44Z")
But how will the other drivers know you’re intent? You’re standing still at a red light. Turning is optional. The driver doesn’t know if it’s not clear, or you’re distracted, or you’re adjusting your seat etc. How could it possibility escalate? If its something obvious- blocking a turn, not going at a green, zooming past- then yes. Standing still at a red light and not taking an optional turn? Not so much. It’s an optional turn- people behind you have no place demanding you take it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-ever-not-turn-right-on-red/621983.md?page=6)