# Do you feel that people who get proprietary over baby names have a point? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 14, 2025, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-feel-that-people-who-get-proprietary-over-baby-names-have-a-point/1020853 "2025-07-14T15:20:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![ricepad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@ricepad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricepad)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2025, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-feel-that-people-who-get-proprietary-over-baby-names-have-a-point/1020853/181 "2025-07-21T19:43:45Z")
I had a co-worker named Kimberly. Her older sister was Kim. Their mom was born and raised in China, and thought they were two different names. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2025, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-feel-that-people-who-get-proprietary-over-baby-names-have-a-point/1020853/182 "2025-07-22T00:54:12Z")
Hehe, in the family across the alley, all three are named some variation of Chris. That makes things pretty easy to remember, at least. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2025, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-feel-that-people-who-get-proprietary-over-baby-names-have-a-point/1020853/183 "2025-07-22T09:25:27Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > With the ongoing feminization of previously male names, there’s got to be corner cases where some infant is one of the last of the male e.g. Madisons and some other infant born within a few weeks or months is one of the first of the female e.g. Madisons. > > > [@Andy\_L](#): > > > > Madison has a similar reason behind its sudden growth in popularity. Madison took off, apparently because it was the name of the main character in _Splash_, (1984) and she took it from “Madison Avenue” in the film. (Caveat: I’ve never seen the film.) When the film was released, just before Reagan defeated Mondale, there was a lot of grumbling about the electoral college-- which there always is before a presidential, it’s just that I was 17 when the movie came out, and aware of the grumbling for the first time. I was dumb enough to think all the little Madisons were being named after President James Madison, as a protest, because Madison had not been in favor of the electoral college. 🤪 🙄 > [@markn\_1](#): > > It seems odd to me that “Shirley” would have been picked by the writers as a stereotypical woman’s name only 26 years after it peaked as a boy’s name. Shirley Temple. She sealed the name’s fate. The name was at one time exclusively a boy’s name, then Charlotte Bronte wrote a book called _Shirley,_ about a tomboy who grew up to be a tough and self-sufficient woman. She was defiantly named “Shirley” by her father (it would be like naming a girl Connor, Apollo or Brayden today), who wanted a son, and proceeded to treat the girl as one would a son, in a time when sons and daughters were treated very differently. The book was hugely popular, and soon there were little girls named Shirley everywhere. The name existed as a “Robin,” or “Avery” for a while, but with most boy Shirleys named after a father or grandfather, and girl Shirleys by parents looking for something “modern.” Then Shirley Temple made her film debut (1932), and shot dead forever the name as a name for boys, no matter how beloved (or rich) great-grandpa Shirley is. That’s why the name disappears from the boys’ list then. However, in the 1950s (_The Honeymooners_), there would still be men around named Shirley. They would have been born before 1932, but _The Honeymooners_ was on in 1955 & 6, so a man named Shirley could be as young as 23-- and easily the age of the main characters. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2025, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-feel-that-people-who-get-proprietary-over-baby-names-have-a-point/1020853/184 "2025-07-22T11:25:36Z")
Thanks for that outline. Which highlights the point that strong cultural expectations to name newborns after parents, aunt/uncles, grandparents, etc., acts as a very strong gender stovepiping of names. And also serves to slow or stop innovation in names. Like the person upthread who claims to be a fourteen. That’s some serious name stasis there. As those outmoded customs die off, names become a lot more freeform. And can evolve quickly and jump between the sexes quickly. Which is all to the good in my book. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2025, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-feel-that-people-who-get-proprietary-over-baby-names-have-a-point/1020853/185 "2025-07-22T16:11:36Z")
one of the few names that crossed the male to female back to male line is douglas/douglass. [Douglas (given name) - Wikipedia][Douglas (given name) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_(given_name)) typically, once a male name flips it doesn’t flip back. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2025, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-feel-that-people-who-get-proprietary-over-baby-names-have-a-point/1020853/186 "2025-07-22T21:37:37Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Madison took off, apparently because it was the name of the main character in _Splash_, (1984) and she took it from “Madison Avenue” in the film. (Caveat: I’ve never seen the film.) Yep. I saw the movie and have watched the name grow in popularity markedly since then ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2025, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-feel-that-people-who-get-proprietary-over-baby-names-have-a-point/1020853/187 "2025-07-22T22:00:23Z")
Back then I used to hear a lot of comments along the line of “Will people ever take a woman named Madison seriously as a judge or politician?” Well, [it happened.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Nguyen) ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2025, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-feel-that-people-who-get-proprietary-over-baby-names-have-a-point/1020853/188 "2025-07-22T22:01:10Z")
Yeah. It doesn’t even ping my “that’s an odd name” radar anymore ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2025, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-feel-that-people-who-get-proprietary-over-baby-names-have-a-point/1020853/189 "2025-07-23T15:30:21Z")
> [@ricepad](#): > > I had a co-worker named Kimberly. Her older sister was Kim. Their mom was born and raised in China, and thought they were two different names. On the other hand, Jonathan and John are two different names. > [@rocking\_chair](#): > > typically, once a male name flips it doesn’t flip back. Nor do names that started off as female become male, nor do they get male variants. The closest I can think of is “Mario” or “Marius”, which did originate as a male name in itself, but which is also often used to honor the Virgin Mary. > [@Andy\_L](#): > > Yeah. It doesn’t even ping my “that’s an odd name” radar anymore There are a lot of "Maddie"s at my school, but they’re about evenly split between Madisons and Madelyns. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2025, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-feel-that-people-who-get-proprietary-over-baby-names-have-a-point/1020853/190 "2025-07-23T16:16:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > evenly split between Madisons and Madelyns. Oof, when I was a lad in elementary school Madelyn (or whatever spelling variant) was an old lady’s name. In fact, lots of old lady names have come back in my lifetime, but Gertrude, Myrtle and Flossie remain in the graveyard. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2025, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-feel-that-people-who-get-proprietary-over-baby-names-have-a-point/1020853/191 "2025-07-23T17:04:46Z")
I know one Gertrude who is about 30yo. And was born and named here by non-immigrants. So home grown Americans. Which origin matters only insofar as I/we don’t know that there may not be other countries where it’s a currently popular name, or was one those parents would have thought ordinary in their culture 30 years ago when they chose it. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-feel-that-people-who-get-proprietary-over-baby-names-have-a-point/1020853/192 "2025-07-25T06:58:39Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I know one Gertrude who is about 30yo. I know a couple who named their daughter Gertrude about 8 years ago, but were always quick to say “We’re calling her ‘Trudy.’” My first thought was “They’re _Monk_ fans.” My second was “Was that Trudy’s full name?” 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-feel-that-people-who-get-proprietary-over-baby-names-have-a-point/1020853/193 "2025-07-25T13:32:44Z")
I jokingly suggested to my son that he should name my youngest grandson in a salute to the classics – Elmer, Homer or Pinkney. Instead, we got a Liam, a name I understand to be fairly popular right now. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-feel-that-people-who-get-proprietary-over-baby-names-have-a-point/1020853/194 "2025-07-25T19:28:20Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I know a couple who named their daughter Gertrude about 8 years ago, but were always quick to say “We’re calling her ‘Trudy.’” > > My first thought was “They’re _Monk_ fans.” Or _Brokenwood_ fans. We love Trudy on that show. But 30 years ago is too long. I had a great-aunt named Gertrude, born in the 1890s, but she was known as Gert, for short. Also, there was Drew Barrymore’s character in _ET_ – Gertie. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2025, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-feel-that-people-who-get-proprietary-over-baby-names-have-a-point/1020853/195 "2025-07-25T20:49:32Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > Instead, we got a Liam, a name I understand to be fairly popular right now. And it’s NEVER short for William. Do not even suggest this. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2025, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-feel-that-people-who-get-proprietary-over-baby-names-have-a-point/1020853/196 "2025-07-29T20:34:04Z")
In L.M. Montgomery’s _Anne of Green Gables_ series of books, Anne grows up and has a number of children, one of whom is a boy named Shirley, after her last name. He would’ve been born around 1900 or so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-feel-that-people-who-get-proprietary-over-baby-names-have-a-point/1020853.md?page=9)