# Do you figure out "whodunnit" in TV shows based on casting? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 9, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446 "2009-09-09T17:38:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gwendee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@gwendee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gwendee)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/1 "2009-09-09T17:38:42Z")
Okay, so it’s a ridiculous thread title but it’s better than “Has watching TV ruined TV for you?” which is really what I’m asking. I enjoy watching police shows (and variants such as Lie to Me, which is not about police but they investigate things and look for bad guys). When **Murder, She Wrote** was in it’s original run my grandmother said “I can’t be bothered to watch this. The most famous person always did it.” At the time it was no skin off my nose since I wasn’t a Jessica Fletcher fan anyway. 25 years later I have watched gazillions of episodes of the entire array of Law & Order, and CSI (Just “regular” CSI and CSI:NY. I could only get through half of one Miami episode.) and on and on and so forth. I was just watching an episode of CSI. A lot of it is hapening in a hospital. Early on Sidel was asking a nurse simple questions. I recognized the actress as someone I’ve seen on a number of other shows in decent sized guest roles. Instantly my brain told me “she can’t possibly only have those two throw away lines. She’ll figure prominently in the story.” A scene later when Grissom says “we have to find Adam’s mother” my brain said “The nurse is really Adam’s mother”. She was of course, but the CSI folks needed to find some lipstick stains before telling us. It happens often enough that I’m starting to wonder if the small amount of enjoyment I get from finding out that I guessed right is worth the time I spend watching these shows. It isn’t nearly as satisfying as figuring it out based on the “evidence” we’re shown. Sometimes the actor isn’t someone I recognize. Sometimes I think “There’s no reason to introduce this character’s husband unless he’s the murderer.” 40 minutes later… What are some giveaways that you spot? The actress I recognized was [Annie Corley](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0179960/) ---
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/2 "2009-09-09T17:49:17Z")
It happens to me a lot of the time. With Law & Order, if Denis O’Hare is one of the guest stars, odds are pretty good that he did it. Otherwise, it’s usually the rich white guy, especially if he’s played by a well-known character actor. On one episode of L&O: CI, John Glover was one of the guest stars, and his daughter was played in a brief scene toward the beginning of the episode by Martha Plimpton. I knew it wasn’t John Glover because he was the obvious suspect. And I knew that they would hardly hire Martha Plimpton to play an insignificant character in one scene, so I figured, correctly, that she was the serial killer. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/3 "2009-09-09T18:05:59Z")
Yup. If there is a name actor guest starring on one of the Law & Orders, and he or she is not the defense attorney, 9 out of 10 times they will be the killer. Or the opposite could happen in a movie, when a character actor type not well know to the public has his name near the beginning of the opening credits, but seems to have a throwaway bit part in the film, odds are he’ll end up being the killer. I knew who the killer was in **The Bone Collector** within the first few minutes because of this. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/4 "2009-09-09T18:09:25Z")
Back in the '70s, The NBC Mystery Movie got around this by showing us the murder at the start of the program. Look, we know that you know that Eddie Albert’s the killer, so let’s just all enjoy watching the detective figure it out, OK? It was a very successful format, and I’m surprised more shows haven’t followed it. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/5 "2009-09-09T18:20:19Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > Back in the '70s, The NBC Mystery Movie got around this by showing us the murder at the start of the program. > > Look, we know that you know that Eddie Albert’s the killer, so let’s just all enjoy watching the detective figure it out, OK? > > It was a very successful format, and I’m surprised more shows haven’t followed it. \*\*Columbo \*\*followed that format as well, and I think when **Law & Order: Criminal Intent** first premiered it had that same premise, though now it seems to be pretty much like the others. ---
**Author:** ![Zagrobelny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/fbc32d/32.png) [@Zagrobelny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagrobelny)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/6 "2009-09-09T18:20:26Z")
I recall an episode of L.A. Law that featured a surprise return of a minor recurring character. His name was purposely left off the beginning credits and only added on the end as a “special guest star”. Surprised more shows don’t do this. Law and Order pimps out the guest starts like crazy on commercials in heavy rotation. They don’t care if you know as long as you watch. ---
**Author:** ![TheMadHun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@TheMadHun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheMadHun)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/7 "2009-09-09T18:41:08Z")
It’s usually the person with the slightly frozen or guarded expression throughout, even before the crime. I always want it to be the sweet ingenuous waif of a girl that’s first suspected, but it never is. My favorite was the casting for Nero Wolfe, where they acted like a repertory company and reused all the actors in different parts. Sometimes a woman is Archie’s gal and the next time a witness and the next time the sultry murderess. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/8 "2009-09-09T19:36:30Z")
> [@Zagrobelny](#): > > I recall an episode of L.A. Law that featured a surprise return of a minor recurring character. His name was purposely left off the beginning credits and only added on the end as a “special guest star”. Surprised more shows don’t do this. > > Law and Order pimps out the guest starts like crazy on commercials in heavy rotation. They don’t care if you know as long as you watch. _Buffy_ and _Angel_ were always so stupid about that - it would be supposed to be a surprise that somebody who isn’t always in the show shows up, and they’d put them as a special guest star in the opening credits. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/9 "2009-09-09T19:39:48Z")
> [@gwendee](#): > > Sometimes I think “There’s no reason to introduce this character’s husband unless he’s the murderer.” 40 minutes later… This is the one that always does it for me. I’ve noticed it a few times on Bones particularly. I wish some of these shows would try messing with expectations more, now that these shows are so formulaic. They should have a case where the first, obvious suspect really did it, without any crazy twists. Or, have a episode where they figure it out about halfway into the episode, right where they normally _think_ they’ve figured it out before the DRAMATIC REVEAL. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/10 "2009-09-09T19:47:55Z")
> [@gwendee](#): > > Sometimes the actor isn’t someone I recognize. Sometimes I think “There’s no reason to introduce this character’s husband unless he’s the murderer.” 40 minutes later… My dad always figures out who the murderer is by finding the character who has no function in the story except to be the murderer. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/11 "2009-09-09T19:53:33Z")
More than thirty years ago, Ben Stein gave us the key to solving any TV mystery: the culprit is always the richest white character. Ultimately, the mastermind behind any big crime will turn out to be a Fortune 500 CEO, who undoubtedly has a loaded gun in his top desk drawer. The only “mystery” left after that will be whether he uses that gun to shoot himself or to TRY to escape from the detectives. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/12 "2009-09-09T20:04:11Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > _Buffy_ and _Angel_ were always so stupid about that - it would be supposed to be a surprise that somebody who isn’t always in the show shows up, and they’d put them as a special guest star in the opening credits. That’s why I was impressed that in the film **Seven** , the name of the actor playing the murderer did not appear in the opening credits. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/13 "2009-09-09T20:13:14Z")
Doesn’t always work (_L&O_ seems to try to combat this by having multiple known actors guest starring in the same episode). I did it recently with an episode of _Psych_. The episode where they help the “sheriff” of Old Sonora. When I recognized one of the other characters was played by one of the secondary actors from _Deadwood_ I knew he was too big to be a extra with a couple lines. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/14 "2009-09-09T20:18:08Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > More than thirty years ago, Ben Stein gave us the key to solving any TV mystery: the culprit is always the richest white character. > > Ultimately, the mastermind behind any big crime will turn out to be a Fortune 500 CEO, who undoubtedly has a loaded gun in his top desk drawer. The only “mystery” left after that will be whether he uses that gun to shoot himself or to TRY to escape from the detectives. Heh. This is more or less it. Unlike the OP, I don’t watch enough TV for TV to have ruined TV for me, so I can’t always point out who the most famous actor is, but the point you’re both making is the same. It’s always the person who is supposed to be the least obvious, which always makes it the most obvious. ---
**Author:** ![gwendee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@gwendee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gwendee)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/15 "2009-09-09T20:40:09Z")
> [@TheMadHun](#): > > My favorite was the casting for Nero Wolfe, where they acted like a repertory company and reused all the actors in different parts. Sometimes a woman is Archie’s gal and the next time a witness and the next time the sultry murderess. If I recall correctly Barney Miller did that, too. > [@obfusciatrist](#): > > Doesn’t always work (_L&O_ seems to try to combat this by having multiple known actors guest starring in the same episode). Another thing they’ve done is have actors we know as harmless and sweet as the most diabolical schemers. I was caught off guard when it was John Ritter, then when it was Michael Gross I was less surprised. If Kevin James ever shows up in L&O I’ll immediately expect that he’ll dramaticlly implicate himself on the stand. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/16 "2009-09-09T20:45:34Z")
**Ferret Herder** said: > [@](#): > > That’s why I was impressed that in the film **Seven** , the name of the actor playing the murderer did not appear in the opening credits. I seem to recall the same about _Kiss the Girls_. **obfusciatrist** said: > [@](#): > > I did it recently with an episode of _Psych_. The episode where they help the “sheriff” of Old Sonora. When I recognized one of the other characters was played by one of the secondary actors from _Deadwood_ I knew he was too big to be a extra with a couple lines. ## That was Jim Butcher\*, who has posted here on SMDB. \*Decided not to spoiler it. If you recognize the name, it’s already obvious from what **obfusciatrist** said. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/17 "2009-09-09T20:49:21Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > _Buffy_ and _Angel_ were always so stupid about that - it would be supposed to be a surprise that somebody who isn’t always in the show shows up, and they’d put them as a special guest star in the opening credits. Whedon likes to play with the audience. Amber Benson was a major character, appeared in nearly forty episodes over three seasons. One night, they added her to the regular cast credits. And killed her off in the same episode. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/18 "2009-09-09T21:16:53Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > This is the one that always does it for me. I’ve noticed it a few times on Bones particularly. > > I wish some of these shows would try messing with expectations more, now that these shows are so formulaic. They should have a case where the first, obvious suspect really did it, without any crazy twists. Or, have a episode where they figure it out about halfway into the episode, right where they normally _think_ they’ve figured it out before the DRAMATIC REVEAL. I think _Bones_ used to do that sometimes - have the killer be the one you thought was the killer. It wasn’t always convoluted. These days they’re a lot more CSI, and therefore more boring. ---
**Author:** ![Leiko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Leiko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leiko)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/19 "2009-09-09T21:22:42Z")
Last time I was watching a marathon of Tru Calling on Sci-Fi Channel, I could guess the killer in the dead bride episode really easily- and not because once upon a time, I’d seen the episode in its original airing. Except for one episode (drag racing death) I can never remember the whodunnit from episodes I haven’t seen since the initial airing. The opening guest star credits of the dead bride episode were a bunch of names I didn’t recognize, and Christina Hendricks. She wasn’t the dead bride that reset Tru’s day, so obviously, she had to be the killer. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446/20 "2009-09-09T21:27:14Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > I did it recently with an episode of _Psych_. The episode where they help the “sheriff” of Old Sonora. When I recognized one of the other characters was played by one of the secondary actors from _Deadwood_ I knew he was too big to be a extra with a couple lines. Of course, the episode or so before that, they really screwed with the audience expectations when a certain actor from The Princess Bride turned out to be a bit more (and, somehow, less) than the audience got to know. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-figure-out-whodunnit-in-tv-shows-based-on-casting/509446.md?page=2)