The study may explain your Jack Russell Border Collie mix! Look at figure 5D and E. Jack#2? 24% Pit Bull but only 1% guessed he had any. Bella? 76% guessed Border Collie but Border was only 7% of its heritage.
Iād WAG neither of that dogās parents were pure or possibly even majority breed of record. Most common breeds are listed in supplemental materials fig s7 ā(C) The most common ancestry across all
dogs is American pit bull terrier, followed by Labrador retriever and chihuahua.ā So either of the top two mixed in could have contributed some size.
Thanks for reminding me of my difficulty making it all the way through an article in Science.
Reading the article, my initial issue was with the apparent 100% reliance on owner survey responses. My underlying belief is that most people are unreliable idiots - ESPECIALLY when it comes to training and describing their pets. Accordingly, pet owner responses it strikes me as a potentially flawed basis for any scientific conclusions. I had ASSUMED at the very least, they they relied on professional trainers, or better yet, did some testing themselves. Or maybe studies of breeds used for various functions - therapy, agility trials, search, guard, huntingā¦ Are they saying al breeds are equally adept at all functions? Do their differences in senses affect their behavior/temperament?
About 1/3 of the way through, they acknowledge that āusing survey data alone, we cannot distinguish environmental affects, including the effects of the stereotypes themselves (e.g. by influencing ownersā perception of their dogās behavior_ā¦ā Actually, it surprises me that this would not have cut the other way - with golden owners describing their dogs as lovable goofs, and dobe owners describing brilliant protectors. I also wondered if the TYPE of person who gets a golden/dobe will tend to perceive/describe it in a certain way. Or if the type of person who gets a certain breed will tend to train it a certain way, bringing out certain behaviors.
After getting through the article, I found myself wondering - do they really feel there is minimal difference between - choose any breeds you think greatly disparate? Say - cairn terriers, and greyhounds? Or chihuahuas vs bassett hounds? At least at the extremes, I would have to think there are some pretty reliable differences.
I read a lot of that article, and I thought it was measuring some of the wrong traits. I would never had thought that ālikelihood to spookā (I forget what they called it) was highly correlated to breed. But biddability and intelligence and tendency to roam and to bark and to howl are all traits that I associate with breeds. Or interest in playing fetch/retrieving. They only included biddability in that, and included a bunch of stuff (engagement with toys?? Is that a weird way of describing retrieving?) that I wouldnāt have associated with breeds.
I think they may have been more interested in understanding the genetics of human behavior traits through examining dogs (all that talk about dogs being treated with human drugs for emotional issues) than with āhow does dog behavior vary by breed?ā
The mutt data analysis with large numbers was specifically aimed at avoiding the confirmation bias.
Yes the confirmation bias would have been expected to cut the other way.
And lastly the findings were not that there were not any behavior differences between breeds but that the impacts were surprisingly small and swamped by differences within the breeds. Playing with the interactive tool - you are much likely to have a very human sociable Golden retriever (62%) than daschund (22%) 72% of Borders are highly biddable and only 10% of Huskys are.
They did measure those traits. But yes a lot is buried in the supplement section.
I found the interactive thing confusing. and the differences you describe seem pretty significant. Iām not sure if Iām missing the point of the study. Iāve had 4 Goldens - and have interacted with MANY more. My 4 Goldens (and others Iāve known) have all been different in some respects. But they were all alike in many important ways. And quite different than - say - the many cairn terriers and shelties I have known.
And Iāve known too many shitty owners who have had shitty dogs - of all breeds.
I wonder if there are measurable behavior differences in (at least some) purebreds vs rescue mutts? If nothing else, would that suggest income differences - which might suggest different amounts of /time to spend on training? Does the entire population of folk who rescues dogs tend towards different attitudes as to how much /effort should be spent on training/socializing their dog?
There is something satisfying about cuddling a big dog or having them lie next to you with their doofy head on your lap.
Fortunately I also like small dogs, because realistically I canāt manage even a medium-sized dog - space in my flat, dog pulling on the lead, carrying it if it gets ill, etc. TBF I canāt find anywhere to get a small dog in a rescue (in the UK) and canāt afford to buy one - which doesnāt mean I canāt afford to look after a dog, it just means dogs now cost Ā£1,000+.
The pair of dachshunds we had before we got Max were rescues. Dumped at the pound. When we took them to our vet for the first time, the first thing the vet said was āThese are really expensive dogs.ā
Are there no breed specific rescues in the UK? Or are those for small breeds always out of dogs?
For the first time in over 20 years our dachshund rescue organization had no available dogs during covid, but now theyāre back with new dogs every once in a while.
There are breed-specific ones, but yes, they not only are always out of dogs but have extremely strict requirements, mainly because they can. My sister was on the waiting list for 6 years for a spaniel, with all the requirements.
I live in a city centre, but have a good-sized private garden, I work from home and my adult daughter is always at home, and I have previous experience owning and looking after dogs, and there are no children in the house. But I have a cat.
Greyhounds are relatively easy to get, but I have a cat. Same for staffies (and I think theyād be too strong on the lead for me anyway).
Romanian dog rescue charities are the way some people go, but Iām lairy of them - Iām concerned that some of the dogs are stolen, and they donāt check that theyāre genuinely OK with cats, housebroken, etc.
I occasionally look at sites like Battersea Dogās Home and the dogās trust and every charity within reasonable travelling distance of London, and there is never a single dog I could ever apply for. Battersea currently has 0 dogs for me, for example.
Round my way there are even waiting lists to go on BorrowMyDoggy, and weāve been on the waiting list for a charity that walks dogs for old/disabled people for five years! You canāt even walk other peopleās dogs for free here.
I do think there are some analogies with human populations: āraceā and āethnicityā are grouped by superficial characteristics that may have some small population differences on frequency of certain traits (such as responses to certain medication, frequency of specific diseases, etc). ā¦ but those small differences are swamped by the range individual variations within the groups. They did apply Genome Wide Association Studies (GWAS) looking for genetic markers that would apply across breeds ā¦ and didnāt come up with much.
According to this study, for temperament the variation within breeds is huge, and seems to not correlate with size at all. Going by these results if you want a specific temperament you may be better off picking a shelter dog and getting a sense of their temperament as an individual, than by relying on breed alone as an assurance of what you will get.
I donāt have anything against small dogs, per se, but it might seem like I do because of my disdain for purse dogs, I think corgis are weird, am repulsed by pugs and chihuahuas, and youād have a hard time getting me to hang out with a mini poodle. I dig terriers, though. A lot. And if you found me some miscellaneous mutt that was small, Iād have no feelings about it other than what Iād have for a misc mutt of any size.
On the other end, I wouldnāt want a St. Bernard or any dog thatās bigger than me, but I do think theyāre cool.
There are tendencies, though. Terriers do tend to chase things and often bark a lot, greyhounds and whippets chase small creatures, collies are high energy and need something to do, labradors eat everything thatās not in a locked cupboard (which is one of the reasons theyāre so trainable: they want food and will do anything for it).
You can get a dog thatās different, especially if you have them from a puppy, but those tendencies canāt be denied. Itās not like youāre reading star signs, these are traits that have literally been bred into them.
Vaya was 33 pounds at three months, so I expected her to get big, like I wanted. Instead, sheās gone on a self-inflicted diet to stay svelte just under sixty pounds, full-grown. Sheās pretty much become the smallest in the family, as her cousin Freya the Hound put on almost twenty pounds of muscle after adoption to tip to 65 and Artemis the Labradoodle is topping 70. Sheās currently ahead of Thorin the Bernese-Bear, but his last puppy vet visit weighed him at 53 pounds, on his way to an estimated 120+ adult weight.
I like my dogs big. Missy the Mutt topped 100 pounds of sheer running delight. My next one will be a Dobermann, but Iāll have to see how the next rescue pans out. Entirely possible I end up with a retired greyhound. Give me the big dogs (just not the fat ones)!
We had two greyhounds (and a whippet) as our dogs before our current Mini Aussie. (One was the classic elegant diffident lady, and the other an affectionate goofball that thought he was a lapdog.)
There are only a few tracks still running though so getting a retired racer may be harder to do than you may think. The supply is nearly gone.
Are more breeding them outside of the racing industry now? Big dogs but take up remarkably little space.
Iām not into greyhounds but 1 of my kids is. She currently has 2 - got the last one late last year. IIRC, last time I asked her about it, she said they were still breeding/running greyhounds somewhere - maybe Mexico? So I thought she said there were still greyhounds to be had - tho many of them had pretty bad health issues.
Impressive dogs, but hers at least, were pretty high maintenance (bad teeth, worms, early aggressive cancerā¦)
