# Do you have a sense of pitch? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 12, 2022, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383 "2022-12-12T10:23:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383/81 "2022-12-15T01:06:43Z")
Is your pitch really perfect? ISTR somebody had a choir sing something in a Bohlen–Pierce scale, or with octaves divided into 13, or some such. ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383/82 "2022-12-15T01:31:48Z")
Guess I’m in the same boat as the OP. I enjoy singing songs I like, but people usually ask me to stop. As far as finding a pitch goes, if someone sings and holds a note, I could probably match it eventually by sliding my voice up and down until … I don’t know the term … it sounds vibrate-y? … I hear harmonics? Here’s the thing, though: If someone sings a note and then stops, odds are I won’t be able to match the note. And if someone plays a sustained note on a piano or guitar or something, I’ll never be able to match it. Pianos and guitars sound nothing like voices, so that’s that. Sure, if someone plays a C and then a D on a piano, I can tell you the second one is higher. But if they pay a larger interval, I probably won’t be able to tell if it’s C-B, C-C, C-D, or whatever. A seventh higher, an octave higher, an octave and an extra step higher … they’re all just “higher.” > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Can you tell that [T-Pain sounds like a robot?](https://youtu.be/k8F3UE9qFsg?t=134) He sounds like a robot because there’s no connection between one note and the next. They were created by pressing keys, so it’s an unnatural jump. Got nothing to do with the pitch. > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > A very simple exercise to help anybody demonstrate relative pitch. > > Can you hum the first four notes of “Here Comes the Bride” off the top of your head? Dum DUM DUM DUM. Just did. [quote] If you go to LSLGuy’s piano link upthread, you can play it yourself. C → F → F → F [/quote] Now see, I thought the third note was lower than the second. I sang something like C — F — F flat — F. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > You can tell if you have decent relative pitch this way: Sing happy birthday. Now trying to sing it a little higher. You will actually be in a different key and singing different notes, but if you can still sing it so it sounds right, you can discern relative pitch. I know you’re addressing the OP and not me. But FTR, on several occasions when I’ve sung “Happy Birthday,” someone or another has told me that I was singing in several different keys. I know that’s bad, but damned if I can fix it. ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383/83 "2022-12-15T01:35:48Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I’m no singer. In grade school if you were in choir there were some perks, so I joined choir. I never sang, just lip synced. The teacher liked it if you “got into” singing, so I lip synced and waved my hands around. Once she asked if I’d sing a solo and I told her I had a sore throat. I was in choir an entire year and never sang once! You, sir, are (were?) a genius. And pretty ballsy. I did a lot of theater in high school and college. I tried to avoid musicals, but wasn’t always successful. Inevitably, at some point in the first chorus rehearsal, the musical director would stop playing and say, “Hold on. Wait. Who is that? Is that you, Cayuga? How about if you just mouth the words?” ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383/84 "2022-12-16T05:25:57Z")
I’ve always had a pretty good ear and it’s hard for me to related directly to someone who can’t hear pitches and intervals. To me it’s like watching someone scowl and try to figure out which dot is red and which one is blue. [![](https://miro.medium.com/max/425/1*c1YCz-6jc6tj3NRYFCWssQ.jpeg) ](https://miro.medium.com/max/425/1*c1YCz-6jc6tj3NRYFCWssQ.jpeg) On the other hand, I’m aware of the existence of color blindness. Knowing it doesn’t teach me what it would be like to not be able to tell which one is red and which one is blue, but it’s at least informative. I guess it’s the same with pitch-blindness. ---
**Author:** ![XOldiesJock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ec9cab/32.png) [@XOldiesJock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XOldiesJock)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383/85 "2022-12-16T19:58:59Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > _Some folk in this thread might enjoy [Musicophilia by Sacks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musicophilia). At least one chapter concerns the relatively small number of people who lack any concept of pitch, including extreme cases of people to whom music sounds cacophonous._ Some years ago I read a column by the late Andy Rooney. In it, he said that he could not recognize music at all. He could hear no melodies. Never could. It all sounded like discordant noise. I was utterly flabbergasted to learn that, while rare, there are many people so afflicted. I just can’t imagine what that would be like. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383/86 "2022-12-17T07:23:32Z")
In choir in college we had a girl who I believe was genuinely tone deaf. It was community college so you didn’t have to try out. Our director was about ready to tear his hair out because she was just awful and pretty loud.\* His solution was to pick a friend of mine and me to sing behind her. We were all singing Alto and my friend and I both had a lot of power (on key). He had us sing behind her and kept telling her to sing more quietly so she could “hear” what we were doing better. \*At first we all _did_ spend a lot of time trying to get her on key, but it was fruitless. Then he’d tell us to sing louder so she could “hear” us. Yeah, we drowned her out which, I guess, was the point. A little off topic: We sang barbershop in women’s ensemble with that director. I hate listening to barbershop, and it’s difficult to just harmonize in that style, at least for me. It’s a totally different type of harmony. However, I loved singing it. It was challenging and different. The next director we got after the first one retired wouldn’t let us do barbershop in WE because in her opinion it didn’t sound good with women’s voices. Pfft. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383/87 "2022-12-17T11:40:16Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Heck, if you like, you can be like IceJJFish above - having any key whatsoever is cramping his style and creativity. I really thought him sounding like that might be a joke or an accident. I’m not sure, but my sense is, people mostly-jokingly told him he was a good musical artist (which in certain ways he is), and his popularity grew as a novelty (rather like Tiny Tim). He may be slightly learning disabled, so to what degree he knows he’s mostly a “joke,” I don’t know. Certainly, his vocal style is memorable and utterly unique; in me, it induces a kind of lysergic trance. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383/88 "2022-12-17T11:45:28Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > “If you play it once, it’s a mistake. If you play it twice, it’s jazz.” “Why can’t they just play the _right notes_?” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/VMcqKyfnT2Y/maxresdefault.jpg "The Office - Jazz Is Stupid [Dwight and Angela]") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMcqKyfnT2Y) ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383/89 "2022-12-17T11:46:50Z")
> [@Cayuga](#): > > He sounds like a robot because there’s no connection between one note and the next. They were created by pressing keys, so it’s an unnatural jump. Got nothing to do with the pitch. But that “unnatural jump” IS in the pitch. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383/90 "2022-12-17T11:54:14Z")
> [@Cayuga](#): > > Now see, I thought the third note was lower than the second. I sang something like C — F — F flat — F In this case, I think you are just misremembering how the song goes, not because of any pitch problems. The song sounds good in your alternative – so normal, it might even be an “official” option. (That lowered note is absolutely the correct third one in the NEXT four-note sequence, so it’s understandable one would try to match them when singing.) (BTW, “F-flat” is more commonly called “E-natural” – it’s one of the two places in an octave where there’s no black key between the white keys). ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383/91 "2022-12-17T12:13:52Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > But that “unnatural jump” IS in the pitch. I realize that. What I was trying to say is that I could tell it was Autotuned because the transition between pitches is unnatural, not because of anything to do with the pitches themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383/92 "2022-12-17T12:21:01Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > In this case, I think you are just misremembering how the song goes, not because of any pitch problems. But it helps explain why I couldn’t carry a tune if you bolted handles onto it. The tune I’m hearing in my head has different notes from the ones that actually exist in the song. > [@JKellyMap](#): > > (BTW, “F-flat” is more commonly called “E-natural” – it’s one of the two places in an octave where there’s no black key between the white keys). Crap! I knew I had a 5-in-7 chance of being correct, so I couldn’t be arsed to go into the living room and look at the piano keyboard. Figures. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383/93 "2022-12-17T12:49:12Z")
> [@Sylvanz](#): > > A little off topic: We sang barbershop in women’s ensemble with that director. I hate listening to barbershop, and it’s difficult to just harmonize in that style, at least for me I’ve gotten a little obsessed with barbershop over the last week. It’s kind of amazing how four voices can just ring like that. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383/94 "2022-12-17T13:08:54Z")
I expect that for barbarshop-style you _doi_ need a sense of pitch, because of harmonies like seventh chords and having to sing in just intonation, not the notes on a piano ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383/95 "2022-12-17T13:28:31Z")
I can see that the blue dot is higher than the red dot. Does that mean i’ve got relative color ? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383/96 "2022-12-17T14:07:50Z")
> [@Cayuga](#): > > I realize that. What I was trying to say is that I could tell it was Autotuned because the transition between pitches is unnatural, not because of anything to do with the pitches themselves. Got it! Makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383/97 "2022-12-17T17:46:12Z")
Barbershop is fun to sing because the harmonies are not umm, intuitive? They’re much more complex and layered. I can’t tell you where they are on the scale or the technical aspects as I sing strictly by ear. It is so thrilling to sing the notes and hear your voice blend in a chord that can give you goose pimples. I admit though that lots of harmonic singing does that to me anyway. I love singing in a group like that. ---
**Author:** ![Die\_Capacitrix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/die_capacitrix/32/9_2.png) [@Die\_Capacitrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Die_Capacitrix)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2022, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383/98 "2022-12-18T08:35:39Z")
I seem to have a sense of pitch, but that doesn’t mean I can sing in tune. I have problems to recreate what I hear, especially if it’s something more complex. I’m okay for _Happy Birthday_, Christmas songs and most hymns, more or less. I can sometimes sing better if I can read the words, I guess it helps me stay connected with the tune. My dad and his friend decided to rebuild a player piano and they attended a course about how to do it. They were the only ones in the course who were identified as being tone deaf. My dad listens to music, mainly because my mother does, but he does enjoy it. When he was commuting, he always listened to the news. He’s okay singing church hymns with a crowd and an organ. But he doesn’t sing along with Neil Diamond, or even whistle while he works. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2022, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383/99 "2022-12-19T20:00:20Z")
If you want to give singing a shot, there’s an app called Sing! by Smule where you can try singing along with thousands of karaoke-style tracks, or sing with others in duets or groups. You can record, edit, re-do sections, etc. And add all kinds of vocal effects to blend your voice into the track (chorus, reverb, etc.) A lot of people might be shocked at how well they can sing along with a song when they are wearing headphones and getting the right mix including their voice pumped back into the audio. It’s actually a lot of fun, and nobody there cares if you can sing well or not. (well, some do, but you can avoid them). But if you don’t want others to hear you, you can record completely privately if you want, and then play it back. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-sense-of-pitch/976383.md?page=4)