# Do you have a spirit? What is it? How do you know? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 8, 2023, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-spirit-what-is-it-how-do-you-know/988245 "2023-08-08T12:30:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-spirit-what-is-it-how-do-you-know/988245/121 "2023-08-29T13:34:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > What I don’t understand is how religious people can somehow compartmentalize their own religion from other religions. There are hundreds of religions and people discount most of them. So if people can believe so many religions are false, how are they able to believe one religion is true? This might deserve its own thread, but I’ll make a few points: - _Some_ of the differences between religions are not mutually exclusive truth claims, where if one religion got it right the others must necessarily be wrong. They include things like different terminology or symbols or metaphors for the same underlying reality; or different customs and cultural practices. As far as this goes, having hundreds of different religions is no more problematic than hundreds of different languages or hundreds of different cultures. - Just because there are hundreds of different possible answers to a question, or hundreds of possible explanations for a puzzling circumstance, doesn’t preclude one of them from being the correct answer and the others from being wrong. - Just because there are hundreds of religions that disagree with one another doesn’t mean there are hundreds of points on which they disagree. If there were only 8 Big Questions, and each had a simple Yes/No binary answer, there would be hundreds (specifically, 2^8 = 256) possible sets of answers to those quesions. - _Some_ people are more intellectually humble about their religion. Instead of saying “Out of all the religions in the world, I believe mine is true and all the others are false,” they’re more like “Out of all the religions in the world, I believe mine comes closest to the Truth, as far as I can tell.” - I suspect that many of the people who _do_ insist that “mine is true and all the others are false” are those with a high level of [Intolerance of Uncertainty](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-personality-trait-intolerance-of-uncertainty-causes-anguish-during-covid/). They’re very uncomfortable with the idea of saying “I don’t know for sure,” with entertaining doubts or considering that they might be wrong about something. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-spirit-what-is-it-how-do-you-know/988245/122 "2023-08-29T13:44:54Z")
I have both a soul and possibly a spirit. But my definitions of these are fairly boring and non-supernatural. Soul - your mind, the conscious, unconscious, and subconscious. Is it severable from the body? Does it go somewhere to live on after I die? I don’t think so, but I can’t really know that. Why is it worth talking about? Because there’s so much of our mind that exists outside consciousness that we have to approach the other parts in other indirect ways. Spirit - my distinct behaviors and signifiers that can be transmitted to others and by others. A spirit actually can be immortal, i.e. Stradivari and Shakespeare still “live” with us through the people who keep their spirits alive. So people do have souls and spirits, though not in the sense of an intelligence that can do supernatural things or exist in realms other than the physical. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-spirit-what-is-it-how-do-you-know/988245/123 "2023-08-29T15:35:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m not hostile to religious people unless they try to impose their religious beliefs or practices on me. And I try to be polite to people who have different beliefs than my own. > > That said, I don’t respect other religious beliefs any more than I respect Christianity. I don’t believe in any supernatural system that lacks evidence to support it. The only difference I find between Christianity and other religions is that Christians, due to being a majority in America, are more likely to annoy me by the aforementioned attempts to impose their beliefs and practices on me. That’s pretty much my attitude _externally_, what others can see from the outside watching my behavior. Very well said. Thank you. The Xians have an extra sin to answer for in that part of their belief system is that outsiders should be recruited. Most other organized religions and spiritual systems don’t really have that. Some Xian sects push that aspect real hard, some almost not at all. That’s always a bad feature, but far better the latter than the former. I go a bit farther than that internally. Once I know you (any you) believe some of that nonsense, that applies a pretty big discount to my view of your character and your thought processes. It’s a bit like finding out someone believes the Moon landing was a hoax. If you’d never told me about that belief, I’d never have thought less of you. Now that you have though, I’ll be forever wondering what other wacky shoes you’re later going to drop on me. I will cut some slack for the fact we all are products of our upbringing, for both good and ill. Someone heavily indoctrinated as a child may never get up the mental gumption to throw off the nonsense. Others raised by a gentler, but still spiritual, hand may find escaping easier. Racist parents having raised you a racist does not give you as a functioning adult _carte blanche_ to still be a racist and think highly of yourself for doing so. I think the same as applied to religionists. Intelligent thinking humans have a duty to question and abandon the irrational unfounded stuff they were fed as kids. You can take up your duty or not as you see fit. But you will be judged on your work or lack thereof. I’m feeling in a bit of a harsh mood today, and it shows in this post. So be it. I’m feeling tired of living surrounded by doctrinaire nonsense promoted for unclean reasons. Whether political or religious or economic. We as a society and as collective humanity will either outgrow our taste for “Faith” or we will be destroyed by it. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-spirit-what-is-it-how-do-you-know/988245/124 "2023-08-29T16:02:11Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > _Some_ people are more intellectually humble about their religion. Instead of saying “Out of all the religions in the world, I believe mine is true and all the others are false,” they’re more like “Out of all the religions in the world, I believe mine comes closest to the Truth, as far as I can tell.” Sometimes it’s even “Mine is the proper religion for me: this is where I fit. Something else may be the proper religion for somebody else.” – I’ll add to my earlier statement on this that ritual and community appear to be genuine needs for humans. Some people fulfill those needs through religion. Others do so in different ways. Again, as long as the religion isn’t being used as a cudgel against somebody: why should I object to someone else’s choice of rituals? > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I suspect that many of the people who _do_ insist that “mine is true and all the others are false” are those with a high level of [Intolerance of Uncertainty](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-personality-trait-intolerance-of-uncertainty-causes-anguish-during-covid/). They’re very uncomfortable with the idea of saying “I don’t know for sure,” with entertaining doubts or considering that they might be wrong about something. I suspect that many of them have a rigid either-or structure of thought, and can’t wrap their heads around the idea that people who aren’t following their religion aren’t necessarily saying that they shouldn’t be following it either. If one thinks that everybody else has to be Wrong, and also thinks that everyone thinks that way, then anyone doing something Else looks like an attacker, like a threat. Since one of the things that human history shows us utterly clearly is that humans will disagree on such subjects, it must be an uncomfortable way to live. But some people’s heads seem to be structured that way. I don’t know how much of it is learned and could be unlearned. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > We as a society and as collective humanity will either outgrow our taste for “Faith” or we will be destroyed by it. I think we’d have to evolve into a different species. And whether it’s even possible for us to evolve into one that has no rituals but still produces decent music, I don’t know. And, short of that: there are plenty of people who don’t use their faith as a cudgel. Our chances of surviving long enough to evolve – into at least a species that doesn’t kill each other over such differences, not necessarily into one that doesn’t have them – are a whole lot better if we can encourage that version. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-spirit-what-is-it-how-do-you-know/988245/125 "2023-08-29T17:09:20Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > And, short of that: there are plenty of people who don’t use their faith as a cudgel. Not saying this about the poster you were replying to, but for some folks, this doesn’t make a difference; to them, belief in the supernatural or unprovable or unscientific is _in of itself_ a sign of lower intelligence or intellectual honesty or rationality or sanity or what have you that the “faithful” have the responsibility to reject. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-spirit-what-is-it-how-do-you-know/988245/126 "2023-08-29T17:53:39Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > - _Some_ people are more intellectually humble about their religion. Instead of saying “Out of all the religions in the world, I believe mine is true and all the others are false,” they’re more like “Out of all the religions in the world, I believe mine comes closest to the Truth, as far as I can tell.” And sometimes that is said because the believer’s particular sect isn’t in a position of power, and they feel they have to add that caveat to get along with society. I see what happens when a sect, Christian or otherwise, acquires political and societal strength and it usually isn’t very pretty. The will to obey their god’s law over man’s law increases as they gain control over man’s law. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-spirit-what-is-it-how-do-you-know/988245/127 "2023-08-29T18:21:27Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > > And, short of that: there are plenty of people who don’t use their faith as a cudgel. > > Not saying this about the poster you were replying to, but for some folks, this doesn’t make a difference; to them, belief in the supernatural or unprovable or unscientific is _in of itself_ a sign of lower intelligence or intellectual honesty or rationality or sanity or what have you that the “faithful” have the responsibility to reject I’d say it depends on how it’s used. Is the believer using it to deny evolution, for instance? Or to fulfill a spiritual need? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-spirit-what-is-it-how-do-you-know/988245/128 "2023-08-29T20:17:22Z")
And I was pointing out that to some, that doesn’t matter; having religious or non-materialist beliefs automatically makes that person’s intellect/judgment/whatever suspect. It’s like if you discovered someone you knew was a Flat Earther, even if that belief didn’t affect any aspect whatsoever of how they lived their lives. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-spirit-what-is-it-how-do-you-know/988245/129 "2023-08-30T00:30:07Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > It’s like if you discovered someone you knew was a Flat Earther, even if that belief didn’t affect any aspect whatsoever of how they lived their lives. Not really; because I can’t imagine how that belief would actually enrich their lives. I do agree that to some it doesn’t matter. But I don’t think that’s a good analogy. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-spirit-what-is-it-how-do-you-know/988245/130 "2023-08-30T19:53:40Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I can’t imagine how that belief would actually enrich their lives. Realistically speaking, it is not flat-earth, it is FECT, so it does the opposite of enrichment. There may be people who believe the earth is or probably is flat and go about their lives not giving it any more thought, because it is of no consequence to them. But FECT asserts that there is a worldwide cabal bent on deceiving the populace about the shape of our world, in order to profit from “space” exploration (i.e., steal our money). So, if someone up and tells you about flat-earth, it is more than a simple fancy. ---
**Author:** ![Clu-Me-In](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@Clu-Me-In](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clu-Me-In)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-spirit-what-is-it-how-do-you-know/988245/131 "2025-06-09T19:47:19Z")
How do you know a “mind” is childlike, adult or growing? Is a mind not similar in nature as a spirit? If the human can define it, does it not mean it exists in our mind or spirit with our consciousness driving it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-spirit-what-is-it-how-do-you-know/988245/132 "2025-06-09T21:13:54Z")
Only if one supposes that one undefined concept is like another equally undefined concept. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-spirit-what-is-it-how-do-you-know/988245/133 "2025-06-09T21:20:49Z")
> [@Clu-Me-In](#): > > If the human can define it, does it not mean it exists in our mind or spirit with our consciousness driving it? Yes, of course, but that in no way even suggests that a spirit actually exists in reality. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-spirit-what-is-it-how-do-you-know/988245/134 "2025-06-10T17:57:42Z")
> [@Clu-Me-In](#): > > How do you know a “mind” is childlike, adult or growing? Is a mind not similar in nature as a spirit? If the human can define it, does it not mean it exists in our mind or spirit with our consciousness driving it? I can’t make head nor tails of the gibberish you’ve written. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2025, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-spirit-what-is-it-how-do-you-know/988245/135 "2025-06-13T04:39:22Z")
> [@Clu-Me-In](#): > > How do you know a “mind” is childlike, adult or growing? The mind is a computer. It obtains and stores information and uses the information to respond in (usually) consistent ways to external stimuli and adjust its response patterns (reprogram itself). Its function can be observed and categorized in ways such as you have described (and other ways as well). > [@Clu-Me-In](#): > > Is a mind not similar in nature as a spirit? It is not. The “spirit” is an undefined abstraction (in part related to emotional, i.e., biochemical, affects) that cannot be observed or categorized the way the mind can. The mind is a real thing, the “spirit” is something our minds invented as a way to cope with variations in mental response patterns and to manipulate and fuck with people. “Spirituality” is contrived nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Clu-Me-In](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@Clu-Me-In](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clu-Me-In)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2025, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-spirit-what-is-it-how-do-you-know/988245/136 "2025-06-13T12:46:30Z")
“Gibberish” is what I was responding to. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-spirit-what-is-it-how-do-you-know/988245.md?page=6)