# Do you have a theory about why people are getting more obese? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 23, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874 "2019-11-23T16:06:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/121 "2019-11-28T15:37:47Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Yes, of course there are many contributing factors, repeated again and again by one poster after another, but most seem to feel uncomfortable with the idea that antibiotic use is a major contributing factor - despite the large amount of solid scientific evidence. … > > … Again, there are plenty of other important contributing factors, but this is a major one. Antibiotics change the gut microbiota, which results in increased energy intake from diet, and the accumulation of fat. FWIW it is certainly well established as a contributing factor. The cincher as a _major_ cause would be if there was evidence that as regional antibiotic consumption increased (through both medical use and consumption of foods contaminated with antibiotics used industrially in food production) obesity rate increases followed. > [@GreenWyvern](#): > > I’ve realised from this thread that many people have a highly mistaken idea about nutrition and digestion. > > Many people seem to think that a certain amount of a specific food has x calories - a fixed amount - and that _anyone_ who eats that food will get exactly x calories out of it. This idea probably comes from food labeling. After all, it says x calories per portion, doesn’t it? … > > … _For more than a century we’ve counted on calories to tell us what will make us fat. Peter Wilson says it’s time to bury the world’s most misleading measure_ > [@Kovitlac](#): > > What could maybe happen though is better nutrition education for children. … Both of these are based on the same implicit assumption that decisions of how much to eat are for most people (thin and fat alike) rational thought out processes. The brain is the main driver of how much we eat and how much we burn but for most of humanity and certainly for most of humanity’s history, _not_ at that conscious calculated level. “Counting calories” is indeed based on poor data at many levels, but it is also a very recent thing in human history. People are not operating with worse data in recent decades, or more poorly educated about nutrition, than several decades in the past, and poor nutrition education and poor calorie data has not spread across the globe as a contagion. The brain is in charge by making declarations about when we are hungry and when we have had enough and when something tastes good enough that we will go past those signals some. The brain is in charge by controlling calories out in ways far above and beyond a decision to exercise daily, but in how much we move when and burn when not exercising throughout the day. These things control our conscious thoughts perhaps and they are not the direct result of our conscious thoughts. And our brains do these things in response to our environments, inclusive of the nature of the foods we are surrounded with, the timing of when we eat it, what messages our guts send to no small degree impacted by our gut microbiota, and the impact of activity even more on our brains than on the activity burned during exercise or as a direct effect of recovery from it. > [@Kovitlac in reference to the physics meme](#): > > More like the only physically possible way, lol. Of course no duh that more calories in than out results in energy stored. But citing that as an explanation is being completely ignorant of how the human machine is very dynamic in both parts of that equation. It has always been so. So what has resulted in the global spread of in net taking in more calories than we burn over long terms? Have humans across the globe fairly suddenly caught a germ that saps will-power and self-discipline, spreading it from America to elsewhere over decades? **QtM** is completely right when we are thinking of our own individual circumstances. We cannot control the huge environment around us, whatever those factors are. Lots of reasons to advocate for good antibiotic stewardship, to be sure we ask if we really need to take the antibiotic or if watchful waiting is a better choice, and to demand less antibiotic use in the industrial food chain, lots of reasons to advocate that kids not be taken advantage of by the Food Industrial Complex, but we can only control what we do, our personal behaviors, putting better choices on our plates in smaller portions and exercising more. But at the larger level of analysis, it is like explaining a specific global flu epidemic taking off by saying you catch influenza by not having washed your hands and not having gotten vaccinated. Now everyone go and overeat your turkeys!! ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/122 "2019-11-28T16:30:18Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > FWIW it is certainly well established as a contributing factor. The cincher as a _major_ cause would be if there was evidence that as regional antibiotic consumption increased (through both medical use and consumption of foods contaminated with antibiotics used industrially in food production) obesity rate increases followed. I suggest that you look at the scientific paper I keep citing. There is exactly that kind of correlation for US states, between antibiotic prescription rate and obesity. It’s very clear from the table and the graphics, Figure 1 and Figure 2. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/123 "2019-11-28T16:36:06Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Both of these are based on the same implicit assumption that decisions of how much to eat are for most people (thin and fat alike) rational thought out processes. I wasn’t talking about people in general. I was taking about arguments put forward by people on this board, who seem to think that everyone gets the same fixed amount of calories from the same food. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/124 "2019-11-28T20:54:03Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > I suggest that you look at the scientific paper I keep citing. > > There is exactly that kind of correlation for US states, between antibiotic prescription rate and obesity. It’s very clear from the table and the graphics, Figure 1 and Figure 2. What is there is an interesting and suggestive correlation but NOT what I am looking for, not “exactly”, and really not at all. Please understand - I am not arguing against the idea that antibiotic exposure, especially in early childhood (and not just prescribed, perhaps not even most importantly what is prescribed) is a significant factor. But when speculating about the epidemic of obesity I want to see data on _temporal_ correlation in order to be more fully convinced of its being a most important primary factor: regional total exposures increase followed by increases in obesity rates. We have that correlation with the spread of American style highly processed foods. > [@GreenWyvern](#): > > I wasn’t talking about people in general. > > I was taking about arguments put forward by people on this board, who seem to think that everyone gets the same fixed amount of calories from the same food. In some past threads some have … but this thread is about the the population level issue, about people in general, I thought? ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/125 "2019-11-29T18:17:32Z")
Via Occam’s Razor, the simple explanation for increasing obesity worldwide: **Because people are pigs.** Evolution (the survival of change over time) favored humans who ate whatever didn’t run off fast enough. The successful fed themselves well; the luzers stayed lean and died young. Fat guys were “men of substance” and skinny guys were peons. Only within the last century have paradigms shifted; now the poor are fat, surviving by eating any cheap crap, while the prosperous have personal trainers and diets to keep them lean and upper-class-looking. Sure, the rich and powerful can be fat pigs too. Just because you’re rich, don’t mean you’re smart. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2019, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/126 "2019-11-29T21:30:08Z")
But why in particular have humans become more porcine over the last few decades? And why/how has that mutation spread from the United States to countries across the world of divergent gene pools and cultures? ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2019, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/127 "2019-11-30T01:39:12Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > But why in particular have humans become more porcine over the last few decades? And why/how has that mutation spread from the United States to countries across the world of divergent gene pools and cultures? Wow! That’s a pretty strange thing to say. - Is it really ‘humans’ who have become more obese, rather than certain demographics in certain countries? - Why do you call it a ‘mutation’? Been watching a lot of horror movies lately? - Has obesity really ‘spread from the United States’, rather than being common to many developed nations, and bad in the United States? (However, it’s even worse in some undeveloped places like the Pacific Islands.) Do you have any actual facts to back up these weird and wild assertions? _Human beings have changed! It’s a mutation! It’s spread from the United States!_ :eek: :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2019, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/128 "2019-11-30T01:49:38Z")
I think you’ve been whooshed, **GreenWyvern**. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2019, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/129 "2019-11-30T06:34:03Z")
Not even sure if that counts as a whoosh so much just completely missing the point. To make it very clear **GreenWyvern** - the point is that there is no virus, or mutation, that has been the vector. Humans as populations are the mostly same humans as we were half a century ago. We are not suddenly having porcine DNA becoming expressed in our brains. If we be pigs we have always been pigs. If the hypothesis is that the obesity epidemic is caused by a lack of will power then there needs to be an explanation offered for why we fairly suddenly have less will power, and why that sudden lack of will power has spread globally, to rich and poor countries both. As to your specific question - it is MORE certain demographics in certain countries and different demographics that are more impacted than others. A hypothesis has to be able to fit the facts of the following recent [study](https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1002968): > [@](#): > > … In most low- and middle-income countries, the prevalence of overweight and obesity is higher among wealthier individuals than among poorer. However, as national economic output increases, the burden of overweight and obesity shifts to populations with lower personal wealth … This work documented that, as per capita GDPs increased from $10,000 to $50,000, the prevalence of overweight and obesity shifts from concentrating predominantly among individuals in the highest to those in all deciles of personal wealth. In our adjusted specifications, we noted that the rich no longer had the highest overweight rates at a GDP per capita of $10,000, around the current GDP per capita of Namibia and Paraguay. We also identified another milestone of the wealth-overweight transition, around a GDP per capita of $50,000, where the wealthiest decile was less likely than the poorest decile to be overweight. A similar transition occurred in obesity across a GDP per capita range from $8,000 to $25,000 …As countries develop economically, we observed that, along with rising overweight rates, a larger fraction of the global overweight and obese populations become relatively poor. … “People are pigs” does not offer any explanatory power for this. Antibiotics as the major factor also does not seem to, at least at first glance. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2019, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/130 "2019-11-30T07:21:02Z")
Ah, well… that’s what happens when you write posts at 3:30am, when you’re feeling pretty bad. 😃 As for looking into more research, I don’t have the time or energy to do that. There are a LOT of research papers out there, and no consensus in the scientific community on obesity… though there does seem to be a consensus that antibiotics are one factor. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2019, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/131 "2019-11-30T09:19:20Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Ah, well… that’s what happens when you write posts at 3:30am, when you’re feeling pretty bad. 😃 > > As for looking into more research, I don’t have the time or energy to do that. There are a LOT of research papers out there, and no consensus in the scientific community on obesity… though there does seem to be a consensus that antibiotics are one factor. I thank you for your contributions, the paper you quoted was interesting and your explanation about the different effects of the same amount of calories in different people was very clear and necessary. Thanks too to **DSeid** , **shh1313** , **monstro** , **Corry El** and many many others, specially those that don’t considered that the question was equivalent to climate change denial (looking at you, **#53** , that was disappointing). And the conclusion? No general consensus, as was to be expected. I did not expect an easy solution, that would have been too…, well, easy. But the debate has been enlightning, thanks a lot. ---
**Author:** ![DaveRaver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daveraver/32/1078_2.png) [@DaveRaver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveRaver)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2019, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/132 "2019-11-30T15:00:34Z")
PIZZA! It wasn’t as widespread until around the '70s. Flour and dairy are highly inflammatory. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/133 "2019-12-01T05:46:12Z")
> [@DaveRaver](#): > > PIZZA! It wasn’t as widespread until around the '70s. Flour and dairy are highly inflammatory. Do not bad-mouth pizza. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/134 "2019-12-01T06:27:07Z")
One thing that I haven’t seen mentioned yet is the details of “processed food.” It isn’t merely some salt and oil added to some potatoes. Many of these foods have been specifically designed to trigger rewarding, compulsive behavior. “Betcha can’t eat just one” may have started as an advertising slogan, but is really the goal of the snack food industry. High fructose corn syrup is also important, but not for any scary “chemical” reasons. It’s simply that a liquid is easier for food manufacturers to handle, transport, store, and use than a powder. Being easier to use than granulated sugar, and cheaper, has meant that it makes an appearance everywhere, because foods that contain it sell better than foods that don’t. As stated in the beginning of this thread, the reasons are certainly multifactorial. I do like the antibiotic hypothesis, but that is certainly only one part. Maybe it’s something like low level antibiotics have caused changes in gut bacteria which lead to changes in satiety, inexpensive sugar, and food custom designed to trigger binge eating have all combined to cause increased mean weight. As these practices spread around the world, obesity follows. There are certainly other factors, too. Maybe I’ve got it wrong. Maybe something else is causing weight gain, which causes more food to be eaten, which creates a demand for companies to produce ever cheaper calories, as consumers ignore food quality. Finally, saying that some people are fat because they eat more is about as useful as saying that F250s use lots of gas because people put a lot in them. Sure, both statements are true, but completely useless in trying to figure out _why_ some people over eat more than others, or why an F250 uses more gas than a Prius. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/135 "2019-12-01T07:56:45Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > One thing that I haven’t seen mentioned yet is the details of “processed food.” It isn’t merely some salt and oil added to some potatoes. Many of these foods have been specifically designed to trigger rewarding, compulsive behavior. Was the rise of processed foods since circa 1960 a global phenomenon? ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/136 "2019-12-01T08:04:30Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Do not bad-mouth pizza. Seconded. At the risk of junior-modding, I think any further disparagement of pizza needs to go into the pit. …and because someone will probably report me if I don’t: 😉 ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/137 "2019-12-01T16:45:15Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > Was the rise of processed foods since circa 1960 a global phenomenon? No, but neither was the rise of obesity. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/138 "2019-12-01T17:01:35Z")
[One in six US adults take antidepressants](https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/one-6-americans-take-antidepressants-other-psychiatric-drugs-n695141), and many antidepressants cause weight gain. Not the major cause of obesity, but a contributing factor. ---
**Author:** ![DaveRaver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daveraver/32/1078_2.png) [@DaveRaver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveRaver)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/139 "2019-12-01T17:17:45Z")
Here’s a good summary of the major culprits in weight gain: [https://www.eatthis.com/foods-that-cause-inflammation/](https://www.eatthis.com/foods-that-cause-inflammation/) ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874/140 "2019-12-01T18:44:30Z")
I’ve had great success losing weight using intermittent fasting where you limit the hours you eat and forgo calories for periods of 16 hours or longer. This suggests to me that the constant consumption of food is a significant reason for weight gain more than than the amount and quality although those are important too. I think advancing the ideas of breakfast being paramount and three meals a day is ultimately doing more harm than good. The body needs a rest from the consumption of calories in order to function properly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-a-theory-about-why-people-are-getting-more-obese/843874.md?page=8)