# Do you have to be offended by personal insults for them to count **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 10, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229 "2010-07-10T17:16:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/61 "2010-07-11T11:08:16Z")
Can we hug Joe, then rape him? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/62 "2010-07-11T11:13:31Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Can we hug Joe, then rape him? Joe’s getting worse than a rapin’ or a huggin’ from me. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/63 "2010-07-11T11:33:49Z")
He probably deserved it, if it’s the Joe I’m thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/64 "2010-07-11T12:45:05Z")
Gosh, I’m still struggling to see how “We’ll spend Rand Rovers money on taxes” or whatever the terminology was is in anyway other than a joke. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/65 "2010-07-11T14:46:23Z")
I think here is where the problem lies, [QUOTE=Oakminster] you should throw it on the one that provoked the response. [/QUOTE] I’m not a fan of people blaming their response on provocation, I have to say. We’re adults here, this isn’t a school yard, and, ‘he started it!’, doesn’t cut it for me. It’s the old, ‘you did this and that _made_ me respond like this…’, argument, so popular with teenagers. As an adult they begin to realize that no one ‘makes’ them respond some way or other. Being provoked is no excuse for not owning your own actions. I should think a libertarian would take more personal responsibility, myself. Also, all the lefty/righty, stuff strikes me as pish, no more than smoke and mirrors from someone who has a very coloured perspective and sees a vast left wing conspiracy where none exists. Often. That’s my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/66 "2010-07-11T17:44:56Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Joe’s getting worse than a rapin’ or a huggin’ from me. 🆒 No wonder Joe’s got that gun in his hand. Nobody freak out. That’s a Hendrix joke. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/67 "2010-07-11T18:00:19Z")
“Jumpy Joe has left and gone away. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey.” ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/68 "2010-07-11T18:04:00Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > “Jumpy Joe has left and gone away. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey.” Um…that’s Joltin’ Joe, as in Joe DiMaggio. The baseball player. \*Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio A nation turns its lonely eyes to you (Woo, woo, woo) What’s that you say, Mrs. Robinson Joltin’ Joe has left and gone away (Hey, hey, hey…hey, hey, hey) \* ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/69 "2010-07-11T18:08:36Z")
Almost everyone on staff has weighed in on this by now, and it’s nearly unanimous that the decision should stand as is. **Wesley Clark** ’s post was a bad idea but it’s not a warnable personal insult and frankly it’s pretty clearly a joke- it’s just one that is open to multiple interpretations, which made it a poor decision. Had nobody responded I would have still made a mod note about it, and I’ve done the same thing in past instances. **Rand Rover** was definitely insulting **Wesley Clark**. It’s not the worst insult I’ve ever seen in GD but it’s over the line of what we allow. I’m not enthusiastic about this decision from a fairness standpoint but the rules are pretty clear. And if you feel someone is provoking you, either by dragging you into an argument you are not involved in, taking shots at your personally, or something similar, the correct thing to do is report the post and not respond in kind. Even in the case of provocation post we expect posters to take the high road. I think the site would suffer if we rescinded that. “Let’s rape [poster X]” is unambiguously being a jerk in my opinion and I don’t think it really compares to a suggestion about raising taxes on another poster. No matter how objectionable you find taxes, tax rates are a policy question. Rape isn’t a policy, and there is no way to make it so. Something comparable (but from a different political slant) might be “Instead of raising the retirement age, I propose we tax [poster x]'s pot.” That strikes me as potentially provocative but not a personal insult, and it would be treated the same way as **Wesley Clark** ’s post here. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/70 "2010-07-11T18:09:46Z")
It was near enough for my purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/71 "2010-07-11T18:30:03Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Even in the case of provocation post we expect posters to take the high road. I think the site would suffer if we rescinded that. So it’s open season for whoever throws the first punch. Free shot. Guy that defends himself gets hammered. That’s silly. Overall, this is a horrible decision, and horrible precedent. Very poorly done by all involved. Yeah, it stands. I get that. It also sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/72 "2010-07-11T19:24:22Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > So it’s open season for whoever throws the first punch. Free shot. It’s not a free shot or open season. The first post didn’t break the rules, and the second one did. While I don’t want to create a situation where someone can waltz up to the edge of the rules and prod someone else to go over - which is why I gave **Wesley Clark** a note - posts of that type really don’t merit warnings, while clear insults like “you are a violent person” do. I’ve seen posts like **Wesley Clark** ’s OP before. In a thread about religion you’ll sometimes see a poster make a reference to **Der Trihs** or **lekatt** , or comments about **Shodan** or **Diogenes the Cynic** in a politics thread, even if they are not participating in the discussion. These are references to their well-known opinions on these issues, and not insults. I give mod notes for it when I see it because it’s provocative, but I don’t think it breaks the rules. And even if someone breaks a rule in making a comment about you, you’re still not allowed to insult them in return. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/73 "2010-07-11T19:27:35Z")
Hey everybody, let’s put on a show and give the money to **Oakminster**! It’ll be super-groovy! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/74 "2010-07-11T19:29:19Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Guy that defends himself gets hammered. Why do you feel an appropriate way to defend yourself is by insulting the person who provoked you? Even if someone outright insults you, you are not justified in insulting them back. If you believe that someone has insulted you, the proper course is to report the post. But you know this. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/75 "2010-07-11T19:30:09Z")
I have to wonder if this whole thing could’ve been avoided if **Wesley Clark** had put a 😉 at the end. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/76 "2010-07-11T19:45:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > While I don’t want to create a situation where someone can waltz up to the edge of the rules and prod someone else to go over - That’s exactly what you’ve done. Under your interpretation of the rules, I can now go to GD and start a thread called “Let’s Raise **Marley23** ’s Taxes”, and encourage all the rabble rousers to come pile on, and you can’t warn me for doing it. If you call me an asshole for doing it, then you have to warn yourself. Of course, you’re a popular poster (and a decent mod, except that you’re wrong here). If anyone were to start a thread like that about you, it won’t end well for them. Unpopular posters don’t have that luxury. The cool kids get to poke the fat kids with sticks, and you’ll hammer the fat kid when he finally bitch-slaps somebody that has it coming. Other cool kids say…“Hey, that was fun. Let’s poke another fat kid with sticks so Marley can hammer him.” And they do. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/77 "2010-07-11T19:47:49Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Why do you feel an appropriate way to defend yourself is by insulting the person who provoked you? > > Even if someone outright insults you, you are not justified in insulting them back. If you believe that someone has insulted you, the proper course is to report the post. > > But you know this. If I’m walking down the street, and some random person punches me in the nose, I am entitled to defend myself on the spot. I don’t have to let the guy keep whaling on me while I hope a cop wanders by. But you know this. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/78 "2010-07-11T20:05:39Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > If I’m walking down the street, and some random person punches me in the nose, I am entitled to defend myself on the spot. I don’t have to let the guy keep whaling on me while I hope a cop wanders by. Please, **Oak** , that’s an absurd comparison. You are not engaged in a physical fight here, and you won’t suffer any actual injury if you refrain from responding while you report the post. And I still don’t understand why you feel that the only possible way to defend yourself is by insulting the other poster. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/79 "2010-07-11T20:19:05Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > This is pure sophistry. I said that Wesley Clark is violent. Fear Itself said that I support the wealthy exploiting the poor. The two statements are absolutely equivalent as far as being a personal insult in GD or not. Do the worthies have a response to this? ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/80 "2010-07-11T20:24:34Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Do the worthies have a response to this? Whether or not taxes are inherently violent is a new one to me. I might be interested in a GD thread in that were it to magically appear. But in ATMB? I don’t think anyone is going to take you up on it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229.md?page=5)