# Do you have to be offended by personal insults for them to count **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 10, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229 "2010-07-10T17:16:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/101 "2010-07-12T02:45:58Z")
mhendo, I see what you are saying. if the word is used as a general second-hand term, it is OK. But, if it is used personally or specifically it is not OK… So saying: All in all I don’t see how this is a good idea. I think the best idea is to raise that nigger’s taxes and spend it on ourselves. One man one vote.’ would be OK? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/102 "2010-07-12T02:51:46Z")
> [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > mhendo, > > I see what you are saying. if the word is used as a general second-hand term, it is OK. But, if it is used personally or specifically it is not OK… > > So saying: All in all I don’t see how this is a good idea. I think the best idea is to raise that nigger’s taxes and spend it on ourselves. One man one vote.’ would be OK? Given what mhendo said- no, definitely not. You’re allowed to use it academically. You can use it in discussions about the word but you can’t use the word to refer to blacks yourself. I’m not sure how correct mhendo is. ---
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/103 "2010-07-12T03:16:03Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Given what mhendo said- no, definitely not. You’re allowed to use it academically. You can use it in discussions about the word but you can’t use the word to refer to blacks yourself. I’m not sure how correct mhendo is. So, in the statement “All in all I don’t see how this is a good idea. I think the best idea is the raise that nigger’s taxes and spend it on ourselves. One man one vote.” It is offensive to refer to an amorphous group of undefined people, but it is not offensive to make the same statement about an individual? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/104 "2010-07-12T03:23:38Z")
> [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > So, in the statement > > “All in all I don’t see how this is a good idea. I think the best idea is the raise that nigger’s taxes and spend it on ourselves. One man one vote.” > > It is offensive to refer to an amorphous group of undefined people, but it is not offensive to make the same statement about an individual? Well, we’re not talking about what’s offensive, we’re talking about what’s allowed. And I don’t know how you get that it’s OK to refer to an individual as a nigger. If you’re going off of mhendo’s post, as I said, you can use the word academically, primarily when talking about the word itself: “Nigger is a racial slur.” But, going by mhendo’s post, you can’t actually use the word as a slur: “He’s a nigger.” Again: I’m not sure if mhendo is right or not. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/105 "2010-07-12T03:33:21Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Just to test my board knowledge: You can say cunt but you can’t call someone a cunt- not even in the pit. Basically, yes. However, the word may be out of place in some discussions but not in others. > [@](#): > > No clue on nigger. You can use it in discussions of Huckleberry Finn or hip-hop lyrics, for example. Directing it at another poster outside the Pit is almost certain to be an insult and against the rules. Even in the Pit it will probably fall under the hate speech restriction. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/106 "2010-07-12T03:34:14Z")
> [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > mhendo, > > I see what you are saying. if the word is used as a general second-hand term, it is OK. But, if it is used personally or specifically it is not OK… > > So saying: All in all I don’t see how this is a good idea. I think the best idea is to raise that nigger’s taxes and spend it on ourselves. One man one vote.’ would be OK? ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/CaqvcRxtInU/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/CaqvcRxtInU?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/107 "2010-07-12T04:08:40Z")
> [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > Clockwork, > > Can I call myself a cunt? Can I call myself a nigger? (I hate even saying those words, but I’m trying to make a point.) I know this is silly Yes. Yes it is. Very silly. Are you being deliberately obtuse? > [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > mhendo, > > I see what you are saying. if the word is used as a general second-hand term, it is OK. But, if it is used personally or specifically it is not OK… > > So saying: All in all I don’t see how this is a good idea. I think the best idea is to raise that nigger’s taxes and spend it on ourselves. One man one vote.’ would be OK? Huh? How the hell would you come to that conclusion? Referring to another poster, or even a non-Doper, as a nigger, would be well out of bounds, given the Board’s prohibition on hate speech. I’m not sure if you’re trying to stir up trouble deliberately, or if you’re just completely clueless about how this stuff works. Either way, i don’t think i’m going to try and explain anything else to you, because the consequences are just to depressing. ---
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/108 "2010-07-12T04:12:03Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Well, we’re not talking about what’s offensive, we’re talking about what’s allowed. And I don’t know how you get that it’s OK to refer to an individual as a nigger. If you’re going off of mhendo’s post, as I said, you can use the word academically, primarily when talking about the word itself: > > “Nigger is a racial slur.” > > But, going by mhendo’s post, you can’t actually use the word as a slur: > > “He’s a nigger.” > > Again: I’m not sure if mhendo is right or not. Um - duh - I’m obviosly not saying that it is OK to refer to an individual as a nigger. DUH DUH DUH I’M SAYING THAT IF IT IS NOT OK TO USE THE TERM GENERALLY THAN IT IS ALSO NOT OK TO USE IT SPECIFICALLY as in “All in all I don’t see how this is a good idea. I think the best idea is to raise Rand Rover’s taxes and spend it on ourselves. One man one vote.” DUH DUH DUH ---
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/109 "2010-07-12T04:13:55Z")
Mhnedo, stop quoting me out of context !!! ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/110 "2010-07-12T04:21:04Z")
> [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > Mhnedo, > > stop quoting me out of context !!! I did no such thing. If you don’t know what “out of context” means, you should probably retire from the debate now. ---
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/111 "2010-07-12T04:30:49Z")
So you are not interested in the actual moral and ethical consistancies of an argument. You are only interested in the technicalities? You need to grow up. Now. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/112 "2010-07-12T04:38:35Z")
> [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > So you are not interested in the actual moral and ethical consistancies of an argument. I’m very interested in them, but your silly questions and hare-brained hypotheticals don’t advance our understanding of moral and ethical consistencies, and nor do they contribute much to the general topic of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/113 "2010-07-12T04:42:56Z")
> [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > So you are not interested in the actual moral and ethical consistancies of an argument. > > You are only interested in the technicalities? > > You need to grow up. > > Now. > [@mhendo](#): > > I’m very interested in them, but your silly questions and hare-brained hypotheticals don’t advance our understanding of moral and ethical consistencies, and nor do they contribute much to the general topic of this thread. [Moderating] Guys, this is ATMB. Let’s dial it back a bit and avoid the personal remarks. ---
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/114 "2010-07-12T04:51:40Z")
I am not the one who created the silly questions or hare-brained hypotheticals in this thread. The Mods were. Did you read this whole thread? If you defend the Mods, who are clearly conflicted themselves, you don’t understand the inconsistancies, and your logic is not at all reasonable or consistant. Why did you come into this thread? Are you just a Mod defender? They don’t need your defense. The Mods are normally reasonable and fair. Normally. But not in this instance. How can you possibly defend Rand Rover being warned and Wesely Clark not being warned? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/115 "2010-07-12T05:05:28Z")
> [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > I am not the one who created the silly questions or hare-brained hypotheticals in this thread. > The Mods were. > > Did you read this whole thread? Yes, i have read the whole thread. In fact, i was the fifth person to respond to the OP. > [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > If you defend the Mods, who are clearly conflicted themselves, you don’t understand the inconsistancies, and your logic is not at all reasonable or consistant. > > Why did you come into this thread? Are you just a Mod defender? They don’t need your defense. > The Mods are normally reasonable and fair. Normally. But not in this instance. If _you_ would bother to read the whole thread, you would see that i made very clear that i thought the decision to warn **Rand Rover** and let **Wesley Clark** slide was ill-advised. Go back and read post numbers [6](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12670015#post12670015), [7](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12670026#post12670026) and [12](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12670059#post12670059). What i wrote is still there, and is pretty damn clear and straightforward. Give it a go, and see if you can work out what my position is. > [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > How can you possibly defend Rand Rover being warned and Wesely Clark not being warned? None of my recent posts have anything to do with **Rand Rover** or **Wesley Clark**. My last few posts were specifically in response to you and your questions. While you might believe that asking whether you can call yourself a cunt or a nigger bears some sort of relevance to the issue at hand, you are wrong. It doesn’t. And while i think that asking questions about the ways in which moderators make their decisions is perfectly valid and useful, what is _not_ useful is constructing wild hypotheticals that bear no reasonable resemblance to the actual question being discussed. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/116 "2010-07-12T05:09:13Z")
First of all, **Enuma** , did I miss something? We went from a reasonable discussion to: > [@Enuma](#): > > DUH DUH DUH [QUOTE=Enuma] Um - duh - I’m obviosly not saying that it is OK to refer to an individual as a nigger. [/quote] You asked if it was OK to say “let’s raise that nigger’s taxes”. > [@Elish](#): > > DUH DUH DUH I’M SAYING THAT IF IT IS NOT OK TO USE THE TERM GENERALLY THAN IT IS ALSO NOT OK TO USE IT SPECIFICALLY _What are you talking about_? > [@Elish](#): > > as in “All in all I don’t see how this is a good idea. I think the best idea is to raise Rand Rover’s taxes and spend it on ourselves. One man one vote.” This has nothing to do with your question about the use of nigger. The board’s rules regarding insults have nothing to do with why you can’t call **Rand** a nigger, otherwise you’d be allowed to do it in the Pit. It’s the board’s rules regarding hate speech. They are completely different rules. ---
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/117 "2010-07-12T05:25:24Z")
sigh - How is it OK to make the exact same statement about an individual when it it is not OK to make the exact same statement about a group? DUH If you are offended by the group statement, how are you not offended by the same statement made about an individual? DUH I am questioning the Mods. And their ethics. And how they parse their ethics. And how they seen to allow one political viewpoint to be consistantly rude and allowing them to use any technicality to insult their perceived opponents while at the same time not allowing the opponents the same leeway to respond. DUH ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/118 "2010-07-12T05:29:32Z")
> [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > sigh - How is it OK to make the exact same statement about an individual when it it is not OK to make the exact same statement about a group? Can you give an example of this being the case? ---
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/119 "2010-07-12T05:46:33Z")
The examples were given previously. I used the exact same statement that was used against Rand Rover. I just replaced ‘Rand Rover’ with another term. Are you being intentionally obtuse or are you being intentionally inciteful? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229/120 "2010-07-12T06:40:19Z")
> [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > The examples were given previously. > > I used the exact same statement that was used against Rand Rover. I just replaced ‘Rand Rover’ > with another term. You mean this? “All in all I don’t see how this is a good idea. I think the best idea is the raise that nigger’s taxes and spend it on ourselves. One man one vote.” You didn’t replace it with just “another term”, you replaced it with a word that, when used in that manner, violates the board’s rules regarding hate speech. As has been said. Repeatedly. > [@Enuma](#): > > Are you being intentionally obtuse or are you being intentionally inciteful? Why are you being so rude? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-offended-by-personal-insults-for-them-to-count/546229.md?page=7)