# Do you have to be phobic to be a "homophobe?" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2004, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524 "2004-01-29T04:42:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/141 "2004-01-30T06:04:33Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t hear anything about the fence-sitters who haven’t made up their minds, and I don’t hear anything about the apathetic who just don’t care. Nope. There are only the overt proponents of gay rights…and Homophobes! Well, how often is it the case that someone’s defined as a fence-sitter on _any_ issue? Whenever someone’s opinions on gay rights are mentioned at all, it’s ususally because they’re in support of them or opposed to them. > [@](#): > > I never see any discussion anywhere about those who may be personally uncomfortable with homosexuality but feel deep down that the movement is valid…they just find it hard to accept. I’m not sure I understand this. If someone finds it “hard to accept” that gays might, say, get the right to marry, what is that a sign of if not a little bit of homophobia? > [@](#): > > I believe that on the part of the media and Hollywood and many politicians that this is a deliberate (and deliberately dishonest) attempt to intimidate and villianize those who don’t necessarily agree with the gay rights movement as a tactic to further their societal goals. What stake do “Hollywood” and “the media” have in furthering the “homosexual cause?” ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/142 "2004-01-30T06:10:03Z")
Oh good sweet Og! I have _not_ been criticizing you for too many posts! I have been criticizing you for not answering any of the meaningful questions posed to you. And no, I don’t mean by that your position on gay rights. I asked you that once, and when you said you didn’t want to answer, I accepted that. What I asked for, what practically everyone here is asking for, are some concrete examples of the misuse of the term that you are decrying. Simply saying “the media, Hollywood, and politicians” is not good enough. I personally have not been aware of this massive campaign to advance gay rights on the part of “the media, Hollywood, and politicians.” Nor have I ever, as best as I can recall, heard anyone in the news media accuse anyone of being a homophobe, justified or not. So who is doing it? Have I been living in a cave? You know what? Never mind. I fucking give up. **Mr. Visible** is right. You are a moron. … Is there blueberry pie? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/143 "2004-01-30T06:13:10Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > No one is branding me a homophobe, not prior to this thread anyway. I bacame annoyed because I’ve noticed that in the ongoing struggle for gay civil rights, there are those who favor it and there are “homophobes.” I believe this to be most noticable in the case of the media, Hollywood, politicians, and, increasingly, by the proponents of gay rights in the rest of society. Cite? > [@](#): > > I never see any discussion anywhere about those who may be personally uncomfortable with homosexuality but feel deep down that the movement is valid…they just find it hard to accept. I don’t hear anything about the fence-sitters who haven’t made up their minds, and I don’t hear anything about the apathetic who just don’t care. Nope. There are only the overt proponents of gay rights…and Homophobes! Examples? I almost never hear the word 'homophobe" in medai discussions. It’s usually the gay rights activists who are marginalized. > [@](#): > > I believe that on the part of the media and Hollywood and many politicians that this is a deliberate (and deliberately dishonest) attempt to intimidate and villianize those who don’t necessarily agree with the gay rights movement as a tactic to further their societal goals. Now this is just stupid, paranoid, unsupportable bullshit but just out of curiosity, what are these “societal goals?” > [@](#): > > Phobias are personality or mental disorders. I simply object to using the term for people who are not phobic as a tactic to achieve societal goals. Homophobia is not a clinical “phobia” and nobody ever said it was. It’s not intended to be a diagnosis just a descriptve term for anti-gay bigots. It’s a perfectly acceptable variant use of “phobia” as a suffix. Your chickenshit semantic quibbling is really childish, ignorant and beside the point. If you don’t like the word use “bigot.” > [@](#): > > I posted a query as whether or not a person has to actually be phobic to qualify as a homophobe. A question that was very quickly answered. > [@](#): > > I was originally trying to illustrate the basic fallacy of calling everyone not overtly behind the gay rights movement “phobic,” Who does that? Give us some specific examples > [@](#): > > In an effort to se if perhaps someone could come up with a term that would adequately describe true bigots (those overtly opposed to gay people and their civil rights) in a more honest way, What’s dishonest about calling true bigots “bigots” (or “homophobes,” for that matter?) > [@](#): > > and which would also not paint those who are not overtly opposed to gay rights with a dishonest label in order to expedite their cause. You have failed to demonstrate any such people have been so labelled, at least not to any significant degree and cerainly not by any sort of “cause” or movement. Also, who is “they?” > [@](#): > > i You see the result. The result is that you get asked to clarify the claims of your OP and to actually respond to the substance of the issues that you, yourself. have raised. Dipshit. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/144 "2004-01-30T06:16:46Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > I must admit however, that being more polite than usual with you is something I’m less and less inclined to as time goes by. Ditto. My original responses to you, which I deleted without posting, were much closer to **Diogenes’** in tone. But I decided to take a deep breath, count to ten, and give you the benefit of the doubt. > [@](#): > > I originally thought you to be less judmental and condemning and more open-minded. And I originally thought you capable of rational discourse. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![Ultraviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c77e96/32.png) [@Ultraviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ultraviolet)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/145 "2004-01-30T06:18:08Z")
This has got to be the strangest pit thread I have ever read! Not only does **Starving Artist** seem to think that this is Great Debates, he is so willfully obtuse it’s ridiculous! I’ve never seen such bizarre and vague replies disguised in such a strangely “polite” style. As Stephen Fry once said on Blackadder _He twists and turns like a twisty-turny thing_. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/146 "2004-01-30T06:18:09Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > “If someone finds it ‘hard to accept’ that gays might, say, get the right to marry, what is that a sign of if not a little bit of homophobia?” > > This is exactly what I’m talking about. Difficulty in acceptace does not equate to a “phobia.” Looks like you’ve been gotten to as well. Do you approve of deliberately attributing nonexistant personality disorders to those who don’t have them? If so, we’re not going to have much else to talk about, other than possibly to sling barbs at each other which is what the bulk of the rest of this thread has degenerated into. > > What stake do “Hollywood” and “the media” have in furthering the “homosexual cause?” Nope. Not gonna bite. On the other hand, if you are being genuine and really don’t know, you wouldn’t believe me if I told you. Besides, I’ve answered this elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/147 "2004-01-30T06:23:25Z")
> [@Ferrous](#): > > You know what? Never mind. I fucking give up. **Mr. Visible** is right. You are a moron. > > … > > Is there blueberry pie? We got… let’s see… off-key lime… Mom’s apple pie, thanks Mom… aerodynamic custard… we got one pumpkin, left over from the holidays… Nope, no blueberry. Wait! Here’s one… no, that’s Buckleberry. What the heck is a buckleberry, anyway? You want that a la mode? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/148 "2004-01-30T06:24:50Z")
> [@Ultraviolet](#): > > This has got to be the strangest pit thread I have ever read! Not only does **Starving Artist** seem to think that this is Great Debates, he is so willfully obtuse it’s ridiculous! I’ve never seen such bizarre and vague replies disguised in such a strangely “polite” style. As Stephen Fry once said on Blackadder _He twists and turns like a twisty-turny thing_. I put this in the pit because I knew how it would likely turn out. My replies only seem vague and bizarre because I am refusing to deflect my argument away from my OP, which is the _dishonestness_ of calling people phobic when they’re not. My style may appear “strangely polite” because I’m trying to genuinely state my position in the case of fierce and oftren erroneous opposition to my position without resorting to calling people names like “fucknuggets,” “assholes,” and “idiots,” which have been directed by me. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/149 "2004-01-30T06:35:55Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > I put this in the pit because I knew how it would likely turn out. > > My replies only seem vague and bizarre because I am refusing to deflect my argument away from my OP, which is the _dishonestness_ of calling people phobic when they’re not. God, this is bullshit. You haven’t proven that any part of your OP complaint is rooted in reality. One more time, you fucking simpleton cite some specific examples or fuck right off. I don’t know why I’ve wasted this much time on you. I spotted you for what you were after about three posts. I’m going to play along this one last time as if you’re a real person with a sincere complaint. Are you going to cite some examples or aren’t you? And could you please go into some more detail about your Hollywood conspiracy theory? What is “their” ultimate goal? ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/150 "2004-01-30T06:37:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Nope. Not gonna bite. On the other hand, if you are being genuine and really don’t know, you wouldn’t believe me if I told you. Besides, I’ve answered this elsewhere. Can’t you just pretend I’m a moron and tell me? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/151 "2004-01-30T06:39:04Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] Oops…hit the return key prematurely. Also, with regard to my style of writing, sorry, but this is just the way I talk when I write. I would reiterate…uh…that is, I’ll say again, that anyone who has difficulty with me personally (or with what I say or how I say it) can go to another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/152 "2004-01-30T06:45:04Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I spotted you for what you were after about three posts. I’ve said this before: you don’t what you’re talking about. Nor do you don’t have an even remotely accurate idea what I am. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/153 "2004-01-30T06:46:17Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > My style may appear “strangely polite” because I’m trying to genuinely state my position in the case of fierce and oftren erroneous opposition to my position without resorting to calling people names like “fucknuggets,” “assholes,” and “idiots,” which have been directed by me. Nobody can oppose your position, because nobody knows what the hell it is. Your precious OP is a vague, badly-worded piece of crap that operates on a number of broad assumptions that you refuse to back up with evidence, or even define. Your clarifications consist of insisting that you clarified things already. And you avoid all questions that go to the heart of your position, instead choosing to focus on the abuse you’re receiving, which you richly deserve. And I’m hurt that you didn’t mention ‘moron’. I thought it was quite apt. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/154 "2004-01-30T06:51:20Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > Can’t you just pretend I’m a moron and tell me? Although your question brought me a smile, and as charming and disarming as it is, I’ll remind you that I’ve posted this information elsewhere. The answers are there for those who have the capacity to see it. Like I said a few posts ago, this is all becoming tiresome, particularly in the case of the small handful of people who are currently continuing this thread. To the rest of you small band of anagonists: I’m going off to play now and probably won’t be back on until sometime tomorrow or tomorrow evening. Rant amongst yourselves and perhaps some new interesting posters will come along by the time I return. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/155 "2004-01-30T06:53:35Z")
> [@MrVisible](#): > > Nobody can oppose your position, because nobody knows what the hell it is. Your precious OP is a vague, badly-worded piece of crap that operates on a number of broad assumptions that you refuse to back up with evidence, or even define. Your clarifications consist of insisting that you clarified things already. And you avoid all questions that go to the heart of your position, instead choosing to focus on the abuse you’re receiving, which you richly deserve. > > And I’m hurt that you didn’t mention ‘moron’. I thought it was quite apt. It’s the _honesty_ Stupid, the _honesty._ Why is this the most ignored aspect of this whole thread??? ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/156 "2004-01-30T06:54:46Z")
Run, Forrest! Run! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/157 "2004-01-30T06:57:31Z")
We’ve fed this one enough already. We should have known better. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/158 "2004-01-30T07:04:54Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Good Fricking Grief!!! I misspell toeing, you respell it in brackets, and I’m a jerk for thinking you corrected me. I also thanked you sincerely and explained my error. I didn’t say you were a jerk for thinking I corrected you; I implied that you were freaking obtuse for using your precious and limited posting time to focus on that, the least important aspect of the post that you were responding to. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > What’s your problem? I thought you were supposed to be a prince of a fellow. Oh, I am; I just flew off the handle and responded to that particular post as soon as I read it, instead of finishing the page. My bad. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > My “limited” time on the computer is not a problem for me. I either post or will eventually post whatever I have to say. I have been accused by Ferrous, and some others in this thread, of avoiding issues and hiding out when a certain amount of time goes by and they haven’t heard my response to the points they have posted in an attempt to show me the error of my ways. Whatever. I suppose I just place my priorities differently than you place yours. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > Damn, I’m disappointed in you. You can’t begin to imagine how devastated I was to read that. :rolleyes: > [@Starving Artist](#): > > And the rest of this is just getting tiresome. I’m right there with you in finding things tiresome; we probably differ considerably in our opinions of the proximate cause, however. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/159 "2004-01-30T07:08:41Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > I’ve said this before: you don’t what you’re talking about. How oddly apt. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524/160 "2004-01-30T07:14:57Z")
> [@MrVisible](#): > > Nope, no blueberry. Wait! Here’s one… no, that’s Buckleberry. What the heck is a buckleberry, anyway? Hmm, I recall seeing something in a recent movie about a Buckleberry Fairy… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-to-be-phobic-to-be-a-homophobe/226524.md?page=9)