Vague??? I’ve damn near written a book on it in this thread!
Quanity is not the same as quality. Give one specific example of what you mean. If it’s so pervasive as you claim, then you shouldn’t have a problem citing an incidence of it occuring. Name one person whom “the media” have incorrectly labeled as homophobic. Be sure to supply quotes and references.
This sounds pretty good to me, Cowgirl, as long as the fence-sitters, the conflicted or the apathatic aren’t referred to in the same way. Once again, it seems to me that their are only two camps in the minds of the, let’s say, “pro-use-of-homophobe” crowd: the pro-gay rights camp and “homophobes.” As long as it doesn’t become a case of the pro-gay rights camp and “heterosexists,” I have no problem with your solution.
Regards.
Oops! I mean “there” are only…etc.
Jeez, I can’t believe I did that. It’s another one of my pet peeves.
Oh, please! This is one of the oldest tricks in the book on debates. I’m sure you know what I mean. I’m not about to fall for this and get bogged down in quibbles over who said what to whom, on what date did they say, and how do I know the context in which it was meant, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum!!!
Nice try.
Would have been no problem, El_Kabong.
Sincerely,
Queeksdraw
I think you’re creating a strawman by asserting that any such dichotomy exists in the first place. I also think you’re a homophobe. You’re at least showing ignorance with some of your language and assumptions. There is no such thing as a “gay lifestyle,” for instance. Only stupid people use that phrase. It is also not your place to “approve” or not approve of other peoples’ relationships. That is a bigoted attitude. Your semantic whining is also characteristic of homophobes.
Why are you so afraid of gay people?
This is exactly the type of attitude I’ve been describing!
If I don’t believe the way you do, use the vernacular you use, subscribe to the language and assumptions you do…then I’m a bigot!!! Contest the use of a word in a way you don’t like…then I’m a bigot!!! Etc., etc., etc.
Why am I so afraid of gay people?
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Would the OP, or anyone else, like to give an example of a time when they were aware of a person’s being unfairly labeled a homophobe that is not a hypothetical like Bricker’s example or a generalized assertion that “it happens all the time!!!”? If so, then people could discuss whether or not that particular instance of “Homophobe-labeling” was fair or not, and there’d be something more tangible to discuss. I guess I don’t really expect that to happen, but it’s worth a shot.
Aaaaaand, thanks to Diogenes the Cynic for providing the concrete example. If the fairness of his labeling of Starving Artist is under discussion, my opinion is that he doesn’t yet have enough information to make that judgement.
I’m sorry to say I’m going to have to adjourn for a while, perhaps until this evening. I must say, however, that I’m pleased with the way this thread is going. It started out a little rough, became angry and abusive for a short while, and has now settled, for the most part, into a spirited discussion of disparate viewpoints…just the way it ought to be.
Regards to all.
You don;t have aleg to stand on, pal. “The gya Lifestyle” iexhibts ignorance because there is no such thing. There are homosexual desires, sure, and gay sex acts, but “lifestyle”? I get up in the morning, I go to work, I come home, I work out, I watch “American Idol”–explain how my lifestyle differs from that of your average heterosexual. The only difference I can see is the gender of the person I sleep next to and occasionally have sex with.
I deserve the full rights of an American citizen. I deserve to have full marriage rights, I deserve to have my relationship treated exactly the same as a heterosexual one is treated. If you cling to the idea that I and other gay people should be treated as inferiors because we love people of the same gender, then you. are. a. bigot.
When you use homophobic language I’m going to call you a homophobe. The word denotes a bigoted attitude against gay people. Your insistence on clinging to the “phobic” part of the word is just whiny nitpicking. The fact that you believe there is something called a “homosexual lifestyle” could be dimissed as mere ignorance but your assumption that you are in some sort of position to “approve” or “disapprove” of it makes you bigoted. The fact that you are unable to take correction about your fallacious semantics and your spurious steretypes makes you a supercillious asshole.
Why don’t don’t you put it on the table, dude? Is homosexuality “immoral” in your mind? Do gay people have the right to marry? What is your position? Don’t be so fucking gutless. If you’re going to statrt a thread whining about being called a homophobe by those awful homos then why don’t you explain what your feelings actually are? Fuck that email dodge. Either have the balls to say what you think or shut the fuck up.
One last response for now: I refer you to my previous post regarding gay lifestyles, straight lifestyles, wealthy lifestyles, bohemian lifestyles, etc. You are jumping to the conclusion that the use of the term “gay lifestyle” is in all cases pejorative.
What Cuauhtemoc said! (Oh, well, so much for spirited, civilized discussion.)
It’s clear that you either haven’t read most of my posts, or you are reading them while seething with such anger that you can’t see their real meaning.
And, if you continue to respond with such vitriol, I’m simply going to quit answering you. Diatribes such as yours aren’t worth the time it takes to answer them.
My example wasn’t a hypothetical. I know I suggested that it was, but that was a sarcastic comment, rather than a real assessment of my example as ‘far-fetched’. In fact, my example happened in the thread Homebrew mentioned in his response.
- Rick
Inventing other bogus “lifestyles” does not lend any authenticity to your first bogus “lifestyle.”
Ther is no such thing as a “gay lifestyle,” you stupid git. Get that through your fucking empty head. It’s a totally empty phrase. It denotes nothing. it conveys no information. There is no such thing as a “straight lifestyle” either and putting that phrase next to others which do convey some sense of a lifestyle (“wealthy,” “bohemian”) does not lend the spurious phrases any more validity by their proximity.
In other words, you don’t have the courage to say what you really think so you’re going to run away.
By the way, you started this in the Pit, dipshit. If you wanted an antiseptic debate you should have posted it in GD. When you spew offensive crap in the pit you’re going to get called on it.
Your passive-aggressive tactic of being “more polite than thou” is neither original nor effective around here, so save the wounded feelings for someone who gives a fuck.
Not to be stupidly nit-picky, but there is a “gay lifestyle,” defined thusly: going through life sexually attracted to persons of the same sex as you are.
But do you not see that lumping so many people together in one category based on only one shared trait is the essence of bigotry? Barry Diller is the head of 20th Century fox films; he’s rich, powerful, and has significant clout in the entertainment industry. I am a middle income editor who lacks all those things. the only thing he and I have in common is that we are both gay. If you claim that we share the same “lifestyle” based solely on our sleeping with men, then you are showing bigotry. There is no such thing as “the gay lifestyle” any more than there is a “straight lifestyle” or a “Jewish lifestyle” or a “black lifestyle.”
Moreover, a statement does not need to be pejorative to be prejudiced. “Black people sure can dance well” is as bigoted as “black people sure can’t do math,” and about as accurate. “Jewish people are good with money”; “Asian people sure are great at science; gay people know how to decorate” are all bigoted stements because they purport to describe every member of the group on the basis of a shared trait. Any sentence about a group of people that is prefaced with “all” (either explicit or understood) is the product of prejudice.