# Do you have trouble being mean/evil in video games? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** video-games-e-games\ **Created:** [November 26, 2023, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718 "2023-11-26T12:59:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/121 "2023-12-05T00:07:07Z")
I’ve watched most of it and yes, I do quite a bit. 😃 _Rogue One_ is also my favorite Star Wars film. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/122 "2023-12-05T04:18:50Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > You get it with Star Wars. The Force is a mystical thing tied into emotions, and acting on things like fear and passion form a feedback loop that gives you power but corrupts you. Staying calm and “Zen” is the way to handle the power without falling into that trap. That tends to naturally fit with good and evil, though that’s oversimplifying it quite a bit, as good intentions could still lead a person down the Dark Side and you could in theory stay within the Light Side and dispassionately perform acts of evil in a pragmatic way. (Though such things are rarely explored in the most popular Star Wars media.) > [@Tamerlane](#): > > I don’t think it does, exactly. But then this ties in with my own personal distaste with the Jedi ethos and my feeling that both the Jedi and the Sith follow crappy philosophies. Emotions are just as much good as bad and if your whole philosophy revolves around suppressing them Vulcan-style, you’re fucked in the head (Vulcans also = fucked in the head 😉). ‘Gray Jedi’ are about the only ones approaching a reasonable level of morality IMO. > > Jedi are, at best, Lawful Neutral. An alignment I’ve always rather disliked 🙂. What I liked about the KOTOR series, especially the sequel, is that it highlights how dumb the Jedi code is. Krea from KOTOR II is one of the greatest NPCs ever written for a game. Play KOTOR 2 with the restored content mod and you see the absolute brilliance that went into her storyline. I don’t want to spoil too much–even with a game as old as that one–because if you haven’t played it you’re in for a treat, but essentially Krea is a Force user who’s always dead-center neutral. She cannot go to light side or dark side no matter what you or anyone else does. (And mechanically she doesn’t pay extra for either sides powers as a result. Unlike those who pick a side who have to pay more to use the powers associated with the other side.) Unlike pretty much every other force sensitive NPC in your party, who will actually drift toward your alignment if you make them Jedi/Sith, Krea will never change her alignment. And there’s a really good canon reason for it: she hates the force and everything that goes with it. She think the Jedi code is stupid and the Jedi are too concerned with politics and appearances to actually be useful to the universe. (She’s not wrong.) She thinks the Sith are petulant idiots who are too bothered with their own desires and machinations to actually accomplish anything. Though, she’s okay with that because she doesn’t want anyone to actually rule. She technically hates the Sith more than the Jedi, because they are inherently more dangerous, but she will use anyone who she finds useful to help her in her ultimate goal: the destruction of the force and the prevention of the OG Sith Lords from returning. (Yeah, the current so-called Sith are really just pretenders to the throne. The real Sith were kind of the entire underlying menace they were going for in the series and alas never made a third game where in all likelihood you would get to meet the original Sith.) One of your enemies seems to align with Krea’s goals of destroying the force, but the problem is he is a giant well of nihilism. He not only destroys the force, but all of existence. Krea doesn’t want that. She wants everyone to be on the same playing field. She wants destruction of the Force without destruction of life. Though she will happily break a whole bunch of eggs to make that omelet. She thinks concepts of good and evil are overly simplistic and everything should be about the big picture. And that’s why she’s loyal to you. Always. Everything she does is for you. Because while she can’t accomplish her goal alone, you can help her. You can stop the OG Sith. You can destroy the Force. And she never lies to you. About anything. Though she doesn’t tell you everything either. Because you only need to know what you need to know to do your job. You got friends? Good. You’ll need them. But you should not get too attached. Use them for what you can, but be ready to sacrifice them for the greater purpose. Or don’t. But don’t whine to her if something goes wrong as a result. You can’t trust other people after all… > [@Miller](#): > > Back when the first _Bioshock_ came out, a bunch of the advertising focused on how the game made you make “real ethical choices,” based on whether to save the Little Sisters, or harvest them for their… whatever the resource they used was. Mana, let’s call it. But it’s wasn’t really an ethical test so much as a marshmallow test - harvesting the Little Sisters gave you more mana immediately, but saving them meant an NPC would give you periodic rewards, so that you’d end up with more total mana by saving them than you did by harvesting them. No you didn’t. You always ended up with more ADAM by harvesting them. You got 80 for purifying them and 160 for harvesting. Then for every 3 you purified, you got a bonus 200 ADAM. Meaning you had a net loss of 40 ADAM for every 3 you saved instead of harvested. But you got some elixirs and powers through saving that you would not get otherwise. (E.g. the ability to temporarily charm a big daddy to help you in a fight.) And in the end, the 280 or 320 net loss for saving (there were either 21 or 24 little sisters, I can’t remember which), didn’t really matter because you could survive just fine with careful use of ADAM even on the Insanity difficulty. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/123 "2023-12-05T04:27:55Z")
My two favorite characters in SWTOR are both Dark Side Sith (Inquisitor and Sorcerer). I play them both as essentially Lawful Evil - they don’t betray friends, but they’re quite happy to make with the Force Lightning to get people to do their bidding. I enjoy that. I don’t like playing characters that are mean for mean’s sake, though, and I especially don’t like hurting animals. In WoW, I hate any quest that requires me to kill cats of any kind. I avoid them unless they’re absolutely necessary to advance the storyline, and even then I do them as fast as possible (or skin the corpses if I’m a skinner, so I don’t have to see them lying around). ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/124 "2023-12-05T15:23:48Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > No you didn’t. You always ended up with more ADAM by harvesting them. You got 80 for purifying them and 160 for harvesting. Then for every 3 you purified, you got a bonus 200 ADAM. Meaning you had a net loss of 40 ADAM for every 3 you saved instead of harvested. But you got some elixirs and powers through saving that you would not get otherwise. (E.g. the ability to temporarily charm a big daddy to help you in a fight.) And in the end, the 280 or 320 net loss for saving (there were either 21 or 24 little sisters, I can’t remember which), didn’t really matter because you could survive just fine with careful use of ADAM even on the Insanity difficulty. Yes, that’s what I remember. I did an evil run once, and could still buy every Plasmid and tonic, just a little more slowly. You wind up never getting Hypnotize Big Daddy, which is one of the most fun Plasmids in the game. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/125 "2023-12-05T15:26:59Z")
Thanks, I got it. The reason I asked is that “honorable” behavior for someone like Trevor from GTA V or the Playa from Saints Row can be pretty horrifying. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/126 "2023-12-05T15:40:15Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > someone like Trevor from GTA V I liked playing Trevor. He’s the most outright psychotic and evil playable character GTA has ever had, but he’s also the most honest. He never deludes himself that he’s anything but an incredibly evil criminal, and kind of despises people like Michael who keep trying to pretend they’re the “good guys”. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/127 "2023-12-05T18:52:52Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > I liked playing Trevor. He’s the most outright psychotic and evil playable character GTA has ever had, but he’s also the most honest. It also helps that Trevor is Steven Ogg, and Steven Ogg is awesome. (He was also great in _The Walking Dead_.) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/128 "2023-12-06T18:57:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Or… you could buy a membership at the soulless corporation megastore, whereupon they’d buy the old community center and turn it into a warehouse, and there was a “community improvement program” where you could buy all of those same benefits, for cold hard cash. Wow, I had no idea about that. I was somewhat bemused when I married the alcoholic mentally ill guy, and even after his big cutscene where I saved him from dying of alcohol poisoning, he still responded positively to gifts of beer. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/129 "2023-12-06T19:19:33Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I was somewhat bemused when I married the alcoholic mentally ill guy, and even after his big cutscene where I saved him from dying of alcohol poisoning, he still responded positively to gifts of beer. So, the evil path? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/130 "2023-12-06T20:27:25Z")
Saw the trailer for GTA VI this week an it made me think of this thread. Outside of the picture perfect graphics nothing made me want to visit that place, play as, or interact with any of the characters shown. It was all the dredges of life I actively try to avoid and not think about. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/131 "2023-12-06T20:48:50Z")
Yeah, at least Saint’s Row makes it look a little fun and goofy. If I’m gonna be a bad guy, I’m gonna be a bad guy in a green cat mascot outfit beating people up with a huge purple dildo bat. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/132 "2023-12-06T22:14:04Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Yeah, at least Saint’s Row makes it look a little fun and goofy. If I’m gonna be a bad guy, I’m gonna be a bad guy in a green cat mascot outfit beating people up with a huge purple dildo bat.   I did a run-through SR 3&4 this past summer. It’s a lot of goofy fun. And it actually has some nice role-playing choices, like saving your friend vs killing your rival. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/133 "2023-12-06T22:16:33Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I was somewhat bemused when I married the alcoholic mentally ill guy, and even after his big cutscene where I saved him from dying of alcohol poisoning, he still responded positively to gifts of beer. So you’re an enabler. On the other hand, the daughter of the other alcoholic in the game absolutely hates being given any sort of alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/134 "2023-12-07T02:12:34Z")
Just the one time. I had to test it out. But yes that actually makes me feel guilty, thinking I enabled a fictitious character. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/135 "2023-12-07T12:58:15Z")
In the old Republic online game there were some nasty implications when you get the slave girl in the beginning that the game chose to ignore when you played the sith version of a Jedi … But in that one the Jedi are assholes that my group didn’t play for long … ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/136 "2023-12-08T19:07:43Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > If I’m gonna be a bad guy, I’m gonna be a bad guy in a green cat mascot outfit beating people up with a huge purple dildo bat. In one game I drove a neon streetsweeper around except I replaced the sweeper’s brushes with saw blades. It looked like a vehicle from a Mad Max film, if that film was made for the rave crowd. And I could celebrate my victories by doing the “Carlton” dance (from _Fresh Prince of Bel-Air_). Say what you want but those games know how to have fun. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2023, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/137 "2023-12-10T18:31:39Z")
Red Dead Redemption 2 is another game that will change gameplay depending on whether you are good or bad. You have a reputation based on your conduct, and things change based on how you are perceived. For example, if you rescue people and help the law, you’ll get discounts at the stores. If you’re mean (or don’t hide your brutality by wearing a bandanna), local citizens will ignore your petty crimes (out of fear), and you will get more items geared towards fighting (like things that fill your “dead eye” aim) when you loot people. Incidentally, while killing unarmed citizens hurts your reputation, you don’t get that hit if they are klansmen. Also, your epitaph is different at the end of the game depending on your reputation. But killing “innocent” people doesn’t bother me. What _did_ bother me was when I went hunting and got off a poor shot at a deer. I was _not_ prepared for it to run off, yelping in pain, as it dripped blood. I definitely had trouble with _that_. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2023, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/138 "2023-12-10T20:00:48Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > But killing “innocent” people doesn’t bother me. Username checks out. ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/139 "2023-12-14T21:50:13Z")
I really like FPS and shooters in general. So I guess killing ng enemies as a game frature is mot an issue. I am indifferent about gore; it doesn’t bother me but Ot does not add anything for mr either. Screams of suffering really disturb me. I never play the bad guy, just can’t do it. Playing Elite Dangerous again right now and so many missions offered are illegal or nasty, I cant take them. I just isn’t enjoyable for me. It also really bothers me that one of the major factions condones slavery and that slaves are a commodity (albeit usually illegal) in the game. Love that the game leans heavily on real astronomy and that I can explore a realistic galaxy of billions of stars, but the human society in the game is a really nasty culture. I get it, there isn’t much action without conflict. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718/140 "2023-12-14T22:30:18Z")
> [@FluffyBob](#): > > I really like FPS and shooters in general. I’ve enjoyed a shooter or two in my life, but I can’t play war games. Science fiction, fantasy, fine, but not actual wars that happened where people died. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-trouble-being-mean-evil-in-video-games/993718.md?page=8)