# Do you have your cigarettes yet, David? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 23, 2002, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536 "2002-10-23T16:20:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/1 "2002-10-23T16:20:32Z")
What is your [problem](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2533547#post2533547)? In response to my saying to Sionnach, “I apologize for David’s behavior,” you blathered: > [@](#): > > You have no right to do any such thing. You have no right to speak for me in any way, shape, or form – and don’t ever forget it. Fuck you, asshole. I wasn’t speaking FOR you. I was speaking ABOUT your BEHAVIOR. It embarrassed me, and I apologized to the new person for it. You stumbled in with your patented rudeness cum crudeness, demanding your cigarettes from Nurse Ratched, and proceeded to elbow me because I was in your way. You might have been gone a long time, but you didn’t skip a beat. > [@](#): > > You want to go suck up to the Nazi, have fun, but don’t mention my name in the process. Refraining from behaving like a baboon does not equate to sucking up, dickweed. What, is it call her names like “Nazi” or else my lips are on her ass? In the course of my debate with her, I proved that she holds herself to different standards than she holds others. I did that by pointing out that she refuses to consider Jews individually while she wants individual consideration apart from other White Nationalists; and by pointing out that she believes homosexuality, because it is deviant behavior, is an indication of a genetic defect while her own deviancies do not indicate a genetic defect. See, that’s what debating is about. You address ISSUES, analyze points, and form rebuttals designed to make a point about the topic. I was debating her views; you were obsessed with a damn smilie. > [@](#): > > I also find it extremely ironic that you later said: > > > [@](#): > > > > The only thing I asked her to define (way back in the Pit) was “jewspeak”. She still hasn’t. Oh, yeah? Whyzzat? > [@](#): > > When I pressed for an answer to my question, you had a temper tantrum and claimed that she had answered it. Oh, yeah. That. Your question. Your stupid, worthless, irrelevant, tacky question. Something about why she put a winkie smilie in her remark about the definition of “jewspeak” being something unclear along the lines of the definition of “obscenity” by the Supreme Court, right? Well, you’ve been out of the loop so long, let me bring you up to date: the winkie smilie means “I’M JUST KIDDING”, moron. I mean, you’re just _pathetic_. All the other people were engaging her in points of logic, refuting her citations, pointing out inconsistencies in her posts. And what were you doing? HEY! OVER HERE! WHAT ABOUT MY DUMBASS QUESTION!? Also, why is it that when I asked you to be civil, it was a temper tantrum? Oh, nevermind. I know why. I remember now. Anybody who doesn’t toe your line is a jackass, right? Anybody who dares to question you is the enemy. Anybody who isn’t for you is against you. It’s not enough that you succeed; other men must fail, right? > [@](#): > > When I asked you to apologize for stating a falsehood, you sulked and refused. I didn’t sulk; I just refused. YOU are sulking. You want your damn cigarettes, and so you’re stomping your feet, and holding your breath, and blaming Billy that you’re so upset. NOTHING on EARTH is more important than your widdle biddy question, is it? Oh, woe are we! The sky shall FALL if we do not ascertain — and THIS INSTANT — whereupon and by what right the ignoble woman has put upon this page a winkie! Holy Who Cares, Batman! She told you in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2526609#post2526609) that “For a moderator, you are not very observant. I said I had some business to take care of. What exactly do you want to know about ‘jewspeak’? Someone asked me a question about it in the previous thread and I answered. And?” That was your damn answer. See, there WAS a previous thread. Take a moment and look out your window. See those things moving around out there? Those are called OTHER PEOPLE. We had lives of our own, even during your hiatus. We were getting on just fine, thanks. We don’t appear and disappear as you meander from place to place. > [@](#): > > Now you are going after the same issue. I’m not going after ANYTHING, oh Clueless One. I didn’t give a rat’s ass if she defined “jewspeak”. I don’t intend to use the term. I just pointed out to her cohort, who had accused me of hounding her for definitions, that I had only asked her for ONE definition. True to form, you yanked that from its context and used it for your own petty purpose. You apparently will stop at nothing. First, you accuse me of sucking up to Nazis in a lame attempt to tie me to them by association, and now you deliberately misrepresent the context of my own words for the sole purpose of spinning them around to benefit you. > [@](#): > > I would laugh if your behavior in this thread wasn’t so sad. Now, THAT’s rich. My behavior? MY behavior!? All you’ve done with your whole presence in that thread is to flail your arms and leave stinky farts. No points of substance. No significant contributions. Just a bunch of screaming rants about smilie faces and Nazis and how life isn’t fair to you because you’re being ignored. In the meantime, Gobear, Darwin’s Finch, Minty Green, and others were grilling her with fabulous points of order like sharp swords aimed directly at her fallacies. They (and I) were doing something important, and you were hell bent to disrupt it. My behavior in that thread was exemplary. I expect when I misbehave in a thread to be called out by a moderator acting in an offical capacity. That didn’t happen. > [@](#): > > I don’t know exactly what’s gotten into you here. To me, it looks like you had a little hissy fit because I had the nerve to come into what you perceived as your thread where you could debate with your little white supremacist discovery. Oh, I doubt that. It looks to me like you perceive it as YOUR thread. One that you felt free to saunter into and despoil with your typical antagonism and posturing. But if one of us gets to claim it, it’s a hell of a lot closer to mine than yours. Remember Sionnach’s reference to the other thread? That was one from the Pit where Gaudere had stated that there exists no policy of automatically banning White Nationalists, but only troublemakers who had trolled the board with spam. She laid out a list of rules that would have to be followed. I then invited Sionnach to open a Great Debates thread pursuant to Gaudere’s statement. And when she opened it, the first line she typed in her Opening Post was “Response to Libertarian”. So, yeah, fuckwit. I DID have an interest in the thread. One you might have known about had you a MODICUM of humility enough to just fucking ask. And what the hell do you mean by my “little white supremacist discovery”? Are you calling me a Nazi, too? You are so fucking careless with words that it HAS to be deliberate. She has stated plainly that she is not a supremacist. And I didn’t discover her. Jerk. > [@](#): > > I purposely avoided responding to a couple of your messages before this one because I didn’t think it would be productive to continue to argue while the greater evil is still spouting nonsense. Oh, really? Well, how fucking noble of you. You know what? I didn’t even NOTICE that you were avoiding responding. I was paying attention to the debate. Dealing with you in that thread was no different for me from swatting at a horsefly that’s swarming around the picnic blanket. I mean, it’s not like I was sitting around and fretting, “Oh, lordy! When will David respond to me? Nothing could be more important than hearing from him.” You’re damn right it’s a greater evil that confronts us. And this is going to shock you, so you’d better sit down. WE CAN FUCKING HANDLE IT. What did you think, that we were waiting for you to fly in like Mighty Mouse to save the day or something? Well, here’s a clue. If we took out every one of your posts, we would still have a GREAT DEBATE THREAD. One that records for posterity fallacy after fallacy of White Nationalist arguments. One that you almost shoved off into Pit obscurity with your heavy-handed brutishness. > [@](#): > > But I guess you didn’t like the fact that I had a little fun in your thread. Get over it and grow up. Oh, you mean what, that I should make up little taunting nicknames like “Libby” and address other members in good standing as though they were trash? > [@](#): > > If you decide you’d like to handle this like an adult, feel free to e-mail me. Like an _adult_? Gah, you are shameless. I already get e-mail from you. That’s enough crap in my inbox. ---
**Author:** ![Slip\_Mahoney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Slip\_Mahoney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slip_Mahoney)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/2 "2002-10-23T16:44:00Z")
I apologize for **Lib’s** behaviour. I don’t know what’s gotten into him. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/3 "2002-10-23T16:47:20Z")
**Lib** , please email me. My address is in my profile. ---
**Author:** ![Slip\_Mahoney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Slip\_Mahoney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slip_Mahoney)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/4 "2002-10-23T16:59:58Z")
Incidentally, **Lib,** I think you should have quoted your entire apology for **David’s** behaviour. It went like this: > [@](#): > > I apologize for David’s behavior. There have been times he has acted like a grown-up, honest. (Like when people agree with him, for example.) ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/5 "2002-10-23T17:06:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > I wasn’t speaking FOR you. I was speaking ABOUT your BEHAVIOR. It embarrassed me, and I apologized to the new person for it. This is your only legitimate point. > [@](#): > > Refraining from behaving like a baboon does not equate to sucking up, dickweed. What, is it call her names like “Nazi” or else my lips are on her ass? Sorry, you did suck up. Specifically: > [@](#): > > Okay, so you don’t hate me. You don’t hate Jews and: > [@](#): > > I hope that I’ve demonstrated that I at least deserve respect since I have extended respect to you. > > Therefore, it would be fine for you to ignore the taunting posts. They stand for posterity as what they are: irrelevant. Instead, if you wouldn’t mind answering the honest questions, I would appreciate it very much. I found both of these offensive. The first because I had previously provided a link to a thread in which she described herself (in a poll) as someone who hated Jews moderately, had never denied it on this message board, and confirmed this in her response to your post (and in subsequent posts). So your “you don’t hate Jews” statement was baseless and seemed to me like an attempt to help her portray herself in a better light. And the second because you tried to pull the rug out from under other posters by giving her an out to ignore their posts, in an apparent effort to set yourself up by contrast as someone “worthy” of being responded to. > [@](#): > > Well, you’ve been out of the loop so long, let me bring you up to date: the winkie smilie means “I’M JUST KIDDING”, moron. This is astonishing. So you think that the smilie means that she was just kidding and therefore did not regard the term “jewspeak” as a legitimate one? Hard to believe, if you’ve followed the thread at all. > [@](#): > > I’m not going after ANYTHING, oh Clueless One. I didn’t give a rat’s ass if she defined “jewspeak”. I don’t intend to use the term. I just pointed out to her cohort, who had accused me of hounding her for definitions, that I had only asked her for ONE definition. I don’t quite buy this. You also wrote “She still hasn’t.” (defined “Jewspeak”) meaning you were still pressing the point about your question - you were not merely pointing out to her cohort that you’d only asked for one definition. > [@](#): > > She has stated plainly that she is not a supremacist. Doesn’t necessarily count. She also spent a bit of time trying to prove that Blacks were prone to violence. > [@](#): > > My behavior in that thread was exemplary. I beg to differ. ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/6 "2002-10-23T17:48:34Z")
I can’t make heads or tails out of these parodies anymore. Carry on, though. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/7 "2002-10-23T18:52:07Z")
I stopped following that thread after the second page, mostly because I found it rather boring, but I found **David B’s** behavior up to that point quite embarrassing, too. I got the impression that he thought **Sionnach’s** ideas were so pointless that it was worth derailling the thread by any means necessary until it ended up in the Pit. He was doing exactly what the white nationalists on Stormfront expect us to do: refuse to listen. And perhaps I misunderstand, but I thought we weren’t supposed to post a lot of non-sequiturs and drive-bys in GD threads. We can’t change their minds if we don’t know what they think to begin with. I read a bit of Stormfront. It left a bitter taste in my mouth, and I realized after I closed my browser that my face was scrunched up in disgust, but I at least have an inkling as to the amount of hatred and fear they have inside them **Sionnach** managed to be polite and clear (again, up to the pages I read), and the Dopers were nailing her points into the ground easily. If we don’t run her off, perhaps she would come around to our point of view. And perhaps not, but at least by behaving well, we set an example. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/8 "2002-10-23T18:53:34Z")
DavidB gets all the best pit threads. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/9 "2002-10-23T19:34:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DeadlyAccurate \* > **If we don’t run her off, perhaps she would come around to our point of view.** Hope springs eternal, I guess. But if you’d continued to read that thread, you’d have come to the part where she flat out admitted she’d be happy if all Jews were killed. ---
**Author:** ![Slip\_Mahoney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Slip\_Mahoney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slip_Mahoney)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/10 "2002-10-23T20:13:02Z")
If you spend all your time debating a racist, you won’t have time to do the fun things, like nailing jello to the wall or playing handball against the drapes. You’ll have more success with the latter, I’ll bet. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/11 "2002-10-23T20:21:46Z")
> [@](#): > > DavidB gets all the best pit threads. And he hardly posts, too! What’s the deal? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/12 "2002-10-23T20:22:59Z")
Well, we all know **David** is one snarky debator. That’s not meant to be an insult-that’s just his style. He’s a sarcastic guy, what can you say? Still, **Lib** , I get the feeling you were baiting him in the thread. Sheesh. I think it’s more embarassing to point out her flaws, than make flippant remarks. It works better. But calm the fuck down, would you? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/13 "2002-10-23T20:33:17Z")
Yes, Guin, you’re right. Actually, I already have calmed down. Thanks to an e-mail exchange with a concerned friend, I can see that I have been testy lately. In all likelihood, I projected onto David my own frustrations, and that was unfair to him. David, I’m sorry that I gave you such a hard time. I should have been glad to see you back. Also, I shouldn’t have insisted that she answered your question, when in fact she dodged it. I regret that I can’t take it back. But I can go forward with a new point of view. I hope to see you around in Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/14 "2002-10-23T20:39:46Z")
Yes, Guin, you’re right. Actually, I already have calmed down. Thanks to an e-mail exchange with a concerned friend, I can see that I have been testy lately. In all likelihood, I projected onto David my own frustrations, and that was unfair to him. David, I’m sorry that I gave you such a hard time. I should have been glad to see you back. Also, I shouldn’t have insisted that she answered your question, when in fact she dodged it. I regret that I can’t take it back. But I can go forward with a new point of view. I hope to see you around in Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/15 "2002-10-23T21:05:44Z")
I wouldn’t let **David B** off the hook so quickly. I think **Deadly Accurate** is dead-on accurate with his assessment. I got the feeling in that thread that David would much prefer to bait **Sinnoach** into stepping into direct (rather than indirect) hate speech, and thus create a Pit pile-on. We’ve had more than our share of those recently, in the recent wave of homosexuality discussions. All they amount to is a chance for people to strut around like peacocks basking in the glory of their grand enlightenment in the face of what they perceive as a primitive, ignorant, neanderthal opposition. GD is for debating issues and positions, presenting arguments and counterarguments. It is not a place for the self-appointed intellectual elite to pound away incessantly in an attempt to elicit something distasteful, enabling them to subsequently parade their prowess in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/16 "2002-10-23T21:13:27Z")
I disagree. What Sionnoch attempted initially was to present herself (& by extension WN) as more reasonable and moderate than she ultimately turned out to be. Deflecting the question about “jewspeak” instead of answering it was a part of this. It was eminently reasonable and relevant to press the issue - the issue being what this said about her view of Jews. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/17 "2002-10-23T21:14:53Z")
Pull that bug out of your ass, RexDart. When someone makes statements that are received as outrageous by other posters, those other posters are entitled to express their outrage. When the statement is particularly outrageous to a large number of posters, you’d better believe there will be a large number of particularly outraged posts in response. And ya know what? For most of the people around here, condemnations of homosexuality are pretty fucking outrageous. People are entitled to express their opinions to the contrary, but they are _not_ entitled to a free pass from the large majority of other posters who think their condemnation is bollocks. And if they don’t like the response to their anti-gay statements, they–and you–can go elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Slip\_Mahoney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Slip\_Mahoney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slip_Mahoney)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/18 "2002-10-23T22:12:35Z")
What **minty** said. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/19 "2002-10-23T22:38:40Z")
I agree with Lib, DeadlyAccurate and Rex. David B acted like a 3 year old throwing a temper tantrum in that thread. I actually had to check that it was him posting and not someone else. I am also disturbed that he gets to flout the rules of GD, calling someone a Nazi with impunity. If I stepped into a GD thread and did that, I would be (rightly) chastised, but all hail the mighty David B, surely we aren’t going to apply the same rules to _him_. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536/20 "2002-10-23T22:50:19Z")
But she IS a Nazi, **Weirddave** , right down to the exterminationism (at least I think it was her nuclear bomb comment). **DavidB** was harsh, but said nothing that was outside the bounds of GD. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-have-your-cigarettes-yet-david/133536.md?page=2)