# Do you honestly believe we've brought freedom to Iraq? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-honestly-believe-weve-brought-freedom-to-iraq/334719 "2005-12-08T17:38:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-honestly-believe-weve-brought-freedom-to-iraq/334719/41 "2005-12-10T00:01:11Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Fair and balanced. > > So, is it your position that Iraqis had \*\*more \*\*freedom before the US invasion? Why do folks keep framing the question like that? I believe the proper question is “what is the quality of life like for the average Iraqi?” Certainly there are some things that are better w/o Saddam. The violence from his regime is (mostly) gone. However, is the level of overall violence for the average citizen better, worse or the same? I’m not certain. Certainly some things are worse - infrastructure, power, jobs, schools seem to be worse (or that’s my assumption since the picture painted by the admin that I’ve heard refers to stuff like x number of schools _reopened_ - implying there are some yet to open, etc.). I fear we’ve replaced one genocidic corrupt son of a bitch dictator with a mish mash of violent (discriminate and random both) squads under no particular pattern, corrupt system. frying pan/fire type of thing. For some it’s no doubt better. for others, no doubt worse. If I believed that the “some” that it’s better for were the bulk of the average Iraqi citizen and the “Some” that it’s worse for were the bulk of the bad guys, that’d be something. But I’m not at all convinced. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-honestly-believe-weve-brought-freedom-to-iraq/334719/42 "2005-12-10T00:43:27Z")
> [@wring](#): > > Why do folks keep framing the question like that? Um… because that’s the title of this thread? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-honestly-believe-weve-brought-freedom-to-iraq/334719/43 "2005-12-10T00:48:37Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Um… because that’s the title of this thread? no shit Sherlock? wow. It had nothing to do w/the Administrations (current and latest) rationale for the invasion to “bring freedom to the Iraqi people”? the inspiration, if you will for the fucking thread title? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-honestly-believe-weve-brought-freedom-to-iraq/334719/44 "2005-12-10T00:52:10Z")
> [@wring](#): > > It had nothing to do w/the Administrations (current and latest) rationale for the invasion to “bring freedom to the Iraqi people”? the inspiration, if you will for the fucking thread title? You should take that up with the OP…John just answered the question after all. I agree…its a silly question as it really is easy to answer, but the answer has no tangable meaning in terms of how life is in Iraq atm. -XT ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-honestly-believe-weve-brought-freedom-to-iraq/334719/45 "2005-12-10T00:54:14Z")
> [@wring](#): > > no shit Sherlock? wow. > > It had nothing to do w/the Administrations (current and latest) rationale for the invasion to “bring freedom to the Iraqi people”? the inspiration, if you will for the fucking thread title? Hey, fuck you, shit-head. If you knew it was the goddam thread title, why the fuck did you ask me why I framed the question that way? Dumb ass… ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-honestly-believe-weve-brought-freedom-to-iraq/334719/46 "2005-12-10T01:00:20Z")
check back in the OP asshole. Clearly referencing the Administrations’ (current and latest rationale) for being there. hence my question. Since when are we only allowed direct linear posts? No one is allowed to delve into the OP a little deeper? so - did you have an answer? or were you simply going to voice your concerns onto the very narrow and nebulous target the administration has framed? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-honestly-believe-weve-brought-freedom-to-iraq/334719/47 "2005-12-10T01:08:11Z")
> [@wring](#): > > check back in the OP asshole. Clearly referencing the Administrations’ (current and latest rationale) for being there. hence my question. Since when are we only allowed direct linear posts? No one is allowed to delve into the OP a little deeper? > so - did you have an answer? or were you simply going to voice your concerns onto the very narrow and nebulous target the administration has framed? I was responding to **TV** ’s post, in which he claimed (thru his clever little fantasy analogy) that we had NOT brought freedom to Iraq. (I didn’t quote that part of his post, but it was the post immediately preceding mine.) I simply asked him if he thinks Iraqis are less free now than before. I don’t see why you object to “framing the question like that”, since that’s exactly what the poster was talking about, and it’s the thread title. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-honestly-believe-weve-brought-freedom-to-iraq/334719/48 "2005-12-10T01:39:38Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Freedom is like pie; you must accept it, & make it a part of yourself. In the pie analogy–eat it. With freedom–internalize it as part of your culture. > > The Iraqis are not eating it. > > They are sticking it in their ear, or trying to stick it our ear. > > They do not grasp the concept of pie. Now I’m hungry. ---
**Author:** ![fushj00mang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d26b3c/32.png) [@fushj00mang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fushj00mang)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-honestly-believe-weve-brought-freedom-to-iraq/334719/49 "2005-12-10T09:20:17Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > As for the shameless land grab part. Did we or did we not, build bases in order to protect oil pipelines? > > Erek That again? Do you not recall that we built the bases in response to the Interim Government’s request that we secure said pipelines (which were blown to hell and back over…and over…and over…and over again?) Those pipelines which are Iraq’s only source of income right now? Or did I miss something in this past Congress, requesting that all documents now refer to Iraq as “Texas Jr.”? ~Mang ---
**Author:** ![Clock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@Clock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clock)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2005, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-honestly-believe-weve-brought-freedom-to-iraq/334719/50 "2005-12-10T10:46:27Z")
> [@TV time](#): > > I believe we’ve brought freedom to Iraq. > > Of course, I also believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, and that FOX News is “fair and unbiased.” I’m with you on all this…the Tooth Fairy on the other hand is bullshit [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-honestly-believe-weve-brought-freedom-to-iraq/334719.md?page=2)