# Do you know a dead language? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 24, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487 "2008-05-24T18:31:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/21 "2008-05-25T01:30:27Z")
I took seven years of Latin in school. However it was only my second of three languages and for that reason we didn’t have that many hours per week. We read Sallust’s _Coniuratio Catilinae_, Cornelius Nepos’ _Atticus_, part of Cicero’s letters to Atticus, some of Cicero’s speeches (definitely _In Verrem_ and some _In Catilinam_ and possibly others) and parts of _De Re Publica_. We also read part of Caesar’s Gallic War, poems by Catullus and various bits and pieces. > [@](#): > > Duck in modern German is ‘Ente’ but I don’t know about any older forms there. According my etymological dictionary (Kluge) earlier forms are: Middle High German: ant Old High German: anut Old Saxon: anad (in place names) Germanic: \*anudi- (unattested) Old Norse: ǫnd Old English: ened ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2008, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/22 "2008-05-25T02:55:56Z")
[QUOTE=DaphneBlack] Duck is ‘bato’ (root: bet tet aleph). [/QUOTE] Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/23 "2008-05-25T03:00:29Z")
Hijack. Please excuse. What Greek is the New Testament written in? Would a person who could read Homer be able to read the New Testament? How about vice versa? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2008, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/24 "2008-05-25T03:03:49Z")
And since I’m responsible for this duck hijack… French \*cane \* and Italian _anatra_ are both from Latin _anas, anatis_. The c- seems to come from _coin_ “quack” because in Old French Latin \*anas \* (duck) and \*asinus \* (ass) fell together as OF _ane_, perhaps leading to hilarious confusion. Pappera is supposed to be onomatopoetic. Spanish _pato_ is a great big mystery. I think it’s related to the Persian / Arabic / Swahili / Armenian / now Aramaic / a bunch of other things complex that all sound something like _bat_, in turn similar to a bunch of Slavic things that sound like _pat_, but I’m working on it. The phonetics are a problem: Arabic should have given a Spanish word like \*\*albato, though “el pato” isn’t too far off. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2008, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/25 "2008-05-25T03:06:31Z")
So where does “duck” itself come from then? And do any other languages have a cognate? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2008, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/26 "2008-05-25T04:38:40Z")
Business Ethics. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2008, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/27 "2008-05-25T04:45:35Z")
Latin and Ancient Greek, both of which I studied at school. And since I still use Latin each time I’m at mass, I don’t really even consider it ‘dead’. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2008, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/28 "2008-05-25T05:03:30Z")
I’m studying a bit of Latin, and we’re starting work on Koine Greek this summer. ( **Dale42** , the NT is written in Koine, a somewhat simpler Greek than the Homeric.) I speak Danish, and the Danish for duck is _and_, which I presume comes from the Latin. I was a little confused my first day in Denmark, when I saw Donald Duck comics titled “Anders And & Co.” which looks like a few too many and’s to an American. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2008, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/29 "2008-05-25T05:45:20Z")
I’ve had 5 years of Latin in High school, and then I’ve had a few college level courses more on the culture than the translating of the language. I enjoyed it, but I rather much love the culture and mythology than I do sitting around conjugating and translating the epic works and all. But all in all a pleasant time for me. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2008, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/30 "2008-05-25T08:00:46Z")
Two years of Latin in high school. We too read Caesar’s Gallic Wars, some Ovid. I never regretted it, but my younger brother thinks it was a waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2008, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/31 "2008-05-25T12:14:53Z")
I took five years of Latin in high school. We translated some Seneca, Pliny the Younger and lots of Cicero. I loved it, but today it would be really hard for me to do anything with it because I spent too much time learning other languages for my Latin to have stuck. It would come back but it would require making an effort. Which I won’t. That said, learning languages is something of a hobby of mine and I spent some time studying Old Church Slavonic. Because I also speak Russian, I could probably read most texts in OCS as well, esp. with the use of a dictionary. I also have grammars of Sanskrit, Polabian, Assyrian and Ethiopian but that’s really just to impress people 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/32 "2008-05-25T15:39:49Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace] So where does “duck” itself come from then? And do any other languages have a cognate? [/QUOTE] I tried to answer this yesterday, but hamsters (or perhaps ducks trying to disguise their origins) ate my post. Old English is _ened_, as noted above, but there’s also _duce_, the source of “duck.” It’s just from the verb “to duck,” as in to duck under the water, what ducks do when they feed. So an English innovation with no cognates. The Old Cornish word for duck is “hoet” (… trying not to make the hijack completely irrelevant). ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/33 "2008-05-25T16:28:40Z")
BWAHA! I am pleased to be the first one to say I do know some Sanskrit. I haven’t had anything resembling a formal education in the language but in the last couple of years I have been studying it on and off, and do know the meaning of a few hundred words. I can read it since it’s essentially the same alphabet as Hindi, but my vocabulary just isn’t strong enough on its own to really understand what I am reading. I do have training in the mantras, or the religious phrases and stuff. Woohoo! Until someone else comes along, I am Master of Sanskrit as far as you all know! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/34 "2008-05-25T18:18:05Z")
[QUOTE=dalej42] Hijack. Please excuse. What Greek is the New Testament written in? Would a person who could read Homer be able to read the New Testament? How about vice versa? [/QUOTE] Short answer: Yes-ish. The New Testament was written in Koine Greek, which generally represents a sort of middle-ground between classical Greek and the modern language. If I’m not mistaken, many of the significant differences being made around that time were more phonological than anything else - pronunciation was beginning to change but the written language was still fairly similar. Personally, having studied Attic and Homeric Greek, I found myself capable of translating a bit of the New Testament. I imagine the reverse would be true. However, ancient Greek is a tricky little language. You can find books that will explain the grammar of Homeric Greek and you can find books that will explain the grammar of Koine Greek. Some things will be the same. Other things will be very different (noun declension comes to mind). Basically, with a knowledge of Homeric Greek you’d be able to take a decent shot at the New Testament, but it’s definitely a different dialect. Now I’ll just wait for someone who’s really studied Greek in depth to come and explain how wrong I am. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/35 "2008-05-25T18:22:49Z")
[QUOTE=Cunctator] Latin and Ancient Greek, both of which I studied at school. And since I still use Latin each time I’m at mass, I don’t really even consider it ‘dead’. [/QUOTE] Latin is dead in the sense that it’s not changing (which is the standard linguistic definition of a dead language). Obviously all of the languages mentioned in this thread are used to some extent, but the syntax and vocabulary are pretty much written in stone. > [@NinjaChick](#): > > Basically, with a knowledge of Homeric Greek you’d be able to take a decent shot at the New Testament, but it’s definitely a different dialect. This matches up with my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2008, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/36 "2008-05-25T18:37:25Z")
For what it’s worth, the Hebrew word for duck is “barvaz.” [QUOTE=NinjaChick] I’m torn between studying (on my own) biblical Hebrew, modern Hebrew, or modern Arabic this summer, so there may be an addition. [/QUOTE] Modern Hebrew and biblical Hebrew are the same language; at the most, “modern” Hebrew has a much larger vocabulary while “biblical” Hebrew occasionally uses some grammatical structures rarely used in modern speech. Basically, Hebrew spoken today is closer to biblical Hebrew than current English is to the English of Shakespeare. As to the OP - like most Hebrew speakers, I can understand a bit of Aramaic, as the languages are pretty close to one another. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/37 "2008-05-26T00:58:48Z")
Between years and years of high school and college German, and some familiarity with Chaucer, I could probably get by fairly well in 14th century London. Though I don’t know if you could call Middle English a dead language. ---
**Author:** ![Buckler\_of\_Swashing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Buckler\_of\_Swashing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buckler_of_Swashing)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/38 "2008-05-26T02:01:02Z")
I’m currently studying Classical Latin - I know a small amount of Ancient Greek. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/39 "2008-05-26T09:29:45Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] For what it’s worth, the Hebrew word for duck is “barvaz.” [/quote] Which is basically just a contraction of _Bar-Avaz_, or “small goose” (literally “child of the goose”.) We won’t be finding any cognates here… Wonder if there’s another, obscure word for “duck” in any Hebrew sources? > [@](#): > > Modern Hebrew and biblical Hebrew are the same language; at the most, “modern” Hebrew has a much larger vocabulary while “biblical” Hebrew occasionally uses some grammatical structures rarely used in modern speech. Basically, Hebrew spoken today is closer to biblical Hebrew than current English is to the English of Shakespeare. Agreed. Almost any high-school student can read the Bible in the original, with only some very occasional help for some of the **really** obscure vocabulary. > [@](#): > > As to the OP - like most Hebrew speakers, I can understand a bit of Aramaic, as the languages are pretty close to one another. I used to think so too, until I tried reading some full passages at one point. Didn’t really work very well… the languages seem deceptively more similar than they actually are, at least IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2008, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487/40 "2008-05-26T10:43:31Z")
[QUOTE=Scribble] …I would bet that “pato” comes from Arabic… \ [/QUOTE] The [RAE](http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=pato) agrees with you there. The Spanish word for duck which is derived from Latin is ánade, leading to the verb anadear, to walk like a duck (to waddle). 1 year of Latin in High School. I was Science track. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-a-dead-language/450487.md?page=3)