# Do you know what "Organic" means?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-what-organic-means/848606
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [February 27, 2020, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-what-organic-means/848606 "2020-02-27T16:56:22Z")
**Posts on this page:** 17
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2020, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-what-organic-means/848606/21 "2020-02-28T01:48:08Z")
> [@zoid](#):
>
> Which definition is the OP using?
>
> Definition of organic (Entry 1 of 2)
> 1a(1): of, relating to, yielding, or involving the use of food produced with the use of feed or fertilizer of plant or animal origin without employment of chemically formulated fertilizers, growth stimulants, antibiotics, or pesticides
> organic farming
> organic produce
> (2): of, relating to, or derived from living organisms
> organic evolution
> b(1): relating to, being, or dealt with by a branch of chemistry concerned with the carbon compounds of living beings and most other carbon compounds
> studied organic chemistry in college
> (2): of, relating to, or containing carbon compounds
> organic solvents
> 2a: having systematic coordination of parts : ORGANIZED
> an organic whole
> b: forming an integral element of a whole : FUNDAMENTAL
> incidental music rather than organic parts of the action
> — Francis Fergusson
> c: having the characteristics of an organism : developing in the manner of a living plant or animal
> society is organic
> many new coinages … stem from the normal organic structure of the language
> — William Chomsky
> 3a: of, relating to, or arising in a bodily organ
> b: affecting the structure of the organism
> an organic disease
> 4: of, relating to, or constituting the law by which a government or organization exists
> their nation has written the separation of church and state into its organic law
> — Paul Blanshard
> 5archaic : INSTRUMENTAL
> organic noun
> Definition of organic (Entry 2 of 2)
> : an organic substance: such as
> a: a fertilizer of plant or animal origin
> b: a pesticide whose active component is an organic compound or a mixture of organic compounds
> c: a food produced by organic farming
I’ve survived to have known most of these meanings. My first thought: DivArty field artillery is organic to an infantry division.
Next: poison hemlock is organic.
Next: “organic” crops (grown without pesticides etc) not grown hydroponically, in sealed environments, will lose a large portion devoured by pests. Pesticides reduce mass human starvation. Like holistic health systems, organic foods are for those who can afford them, and who have access to advanced healthcare. Think, luxury items.
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### Author:  [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2020, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-what-organic-means/848606/22 "2020-02-28T01:57:46Z")
> [@Polyester](#):
>
> Sure, a licence to charge consumers double for product which otherwise falls under the category of normally produced and grown product.
Thankfully here in the U. S., we have a semi Capitalist economic system that allows consumers to have a choice between organic and non organic products. No consumers are forced to buy the more costly organic products. Plenty of poor, single income families out there who simply cannot afford the luxury of organic products.
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### Author:  [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2020, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-what-organic-means/848606/23 "2020-02-28T02:07:49Z")
What’s interesting to me is how the comments can easily classify the responder into political classes. Not the poll answers themselves.
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### Author:  [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2020, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-what-organic-means/848606/24 "2020-02-28T02:26:06Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#):
>
> The most relevant definition for me is: Of, relating to, or containing carbon compounds.
+1
But when the certification allows the marketing of distilled, bottled “organic water” I freely admit to no longer understanding what the term means.
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### Author:  [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2020, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-what-organic-means/848606/25 "2020-02-28T02:47:39Z")
> [@Musicat](#):
>
> You mean hoop snakes? Them round critters is everywhere!
We call those _Kekules_.
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### Author:  [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2020, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-what-organic-means/848606/26 "2020-02-28T03:57:24Z")
> [@Disheavel](#):
>
> Just wait until you understand that the “Non-GMO” label addition is just a business that you pay several thousand dollars annually to, submit a short document to, and then you can put it on your product’s label. No testing or validation. There is no standard to its certification, just a fee to be paid!
Not true at all, except for the several thousands of dollars part. I worked for a company with 66 items verified as non-GMO by the NonGMO Project, throughout the process. They require submission of extensive documentation of every sub-sub-ingredient. It’s an extremely involved process. It takes months for them to verify a single product. And any time a sub-sub-ingredient changes, it has to be done over again.
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2020, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-what-organic-means/848606/27 "2020-02-28T05:17:08Z")
Two types of answer, one of which wasn’t reflected in the poll:
1. Yes, I know what it means. I’m filling out the paperwork for my annual renewal right now. (Well, not right now. Right now I’m goofing off on the internet before going to bed. But “right now” in the sense of ‘I need to finish filling this batch of stuff out by tomorrow’.)
2. The word “organic”, like a lot of other words in the English language, has a whole batch of meanings. What you actually meant, judging by the additional detail given in the opening post, was ‘Do you know what “USDA certified organically grown” means?’
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2020, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-what-organic-means/848606/28 "2020-02-28T05:21:30Z")
I voted “no” because why would I give a crap what the USDA regulations are.
I do, however, know what the South African regulatory framework is.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2020, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-what-organic-means/848606/29 "2020-02-28T13:53:14Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#):
>
> But when the certification allows the marketing of distilled, bottled “organic water” I freely admit to no longer understanding what the term means.
AKA dihydrogen monoxide. Which cannot be considered organic, because it a major component of acid rain, as well as producing severe tissue damage in person exposed to its solid form, and whose gaseous form produces severe burns. It also contributes to soil erosion.
It is, however, gluten-free.
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2020, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-what-organic-means/848606/30 "2020-02-28T14:11:51Z")
1993 wants it’s joke back.
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### Author:  [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-what-organic-means/848606/31 "2020-02-28T16:28:33Z")
> [@Chingon](#):
>
> 1993 wants it’s joke back.
\*its
😉
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### Author:  [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2020, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-what-organic-means/848606/32 "2020-02-28T23:34:57Z")
> [@Polyester](#):
>
> Sure, a licence to charge consumers double for product which otherwise falls under the category of normally produced and grown product.
I believe you are confusing “organic” and “natural.”
> [@https://www.eater.com/2019/4/11/18304951/natural-food-organic-meaning-difference-hormel-meat-lawsuit](#):
>
> The FDA has no guidelines for use of the term “natural” and only lightly enforces the term “all-natural,” according to Vox. Meanwhile, the USDA defines “natural” as “a product containing no artificial ingredient or added color” that “is only minimally processed,” meaning it’s “processed in a manner that does not fundamentally alter the product.” That means animals raised with hormones and antibiotics can still fall under the “natural” category, as can Cheetos, lemon-flavored Oreos, and Skippy peanut butter. The Hormel Natural Choice packaging is within the legal bounds outlined by the USDA — it defines “natural” as “minimally processed” with “no artificial ingredients.” But the ALDF plans to appeal the ruling.
“Organic” in terms of food labeling means a bit more:
> [@https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2012/03/22/organic-101-what-usda-organic-label-means](#):
>
> Produce can be called organic if it’s certified to have grown on soil that had no prohibited substances applied for three years prior to harvest. Prohibited substances include most synthetic fertilizers and pesticides. In instances when a grower has to use a synthetic substance to achieve a specific purpose, the substance must first be approved according to criteria that examine its effects on human health and the environment
You can still quibble with the proposition that “organic” is better for your health and/or the environment, of course. I’m not overly concerned with the ill effects of consuming non-organic foods, especially at my age. (I’m 61 - if I eat something that’s gonna cause cancer in 30 years, I don’t care.) And it seems to me that there are far more pressing environmental issues to concern ourselves with than responsible pesticide use.
(Still, I will pay slightly more for organic stuff if the price difference is not insane, on the theory that it is probably at least a little for my body and the environment. When the organic is twice the price of the regular stuff, I buy the regular.)
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-what-organic-means/848606/33 "2020-02-28T23:41:17Z")
I voted yes because I’ve read _The Omnivore’s Dilemma_, which discusses Big Organic and the difference between food that is naturally produced and food that is marketed as being naturally produced.
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [February 29, 2020, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-what-organic-means/848606/34 "2020-02-29T04:08:48Z")
> [@needscoffee](#):
>
> Not true at all, except for the several thousands of dollars part. I worked for a company with 66 items verified as non-GMO by the NonGMO Project, throughout the process. They require submission of extensive documentation of every sub-sub-ingredient. It’s an extremely involved process. It takes months for them to verify a single product. And any time a sub-sub-ingredient changes, it has to be done over again.
**Disheaval** appears to be correct that the Non-GMO Project does not routinely test products submitted for certification if the paperwork looks OK.
According to the following article, it also certifies food as non-GMO if it was genetically modified via old technology like gamma irradiation, and also certifies foods that don’t have any GMO counterparts.\*
> **[Non-GMO Project: Pro-organic group wants to 'shrink' market for conventional...](https://geneticliteracyproject.org/glp-facts/non-gmo-project-pro-organic-group-wants-to-shrink-market-for-conventional-foods-kill-biotechnology/)**
>
> Organic industry funded non-profit now certifies almost 30,000 products as GMO free, including salt, which contains no DNA.
\*this strikes me as a sleazy marketing ploy. Advertising that your stuff is non-GMO implies that others are selling a genetically modified version which doesn’t exist, in order to gain a competitive advantage. It’s even done for salt! Such deceptive advertising should be illegal.
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### Author:  [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)
#### Post date: [February 29, 2020, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-what-organic-means/848606/35 "2020-02-29T04:16:36Z")
Is the OP ever going to return to say what they think it means?
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### Author:  [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)
#### Post date: [February 29, 2020, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-what-organic-means/848606/36 "2020-02-29T05:53:39Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#):
>
> Unfortunately, I’ve been working with a client to source a better organic yeast for their vodka and it’s been a pain in the ass because most of the yest labs don’t want to bother with the certification even if they would otherwise be considered organic.
Is their an organic Champagne yeast purveyor? I was reading about a small experiment [Clawhammer did](https://www.clawhammersupply.com/blogs/moonshine-still-blog/7784687-the-best-yeasts-for-distilling)where they found the Champagne yeast they tried led to a very clean, albeit character-less, wash. Cleaner than the yeast they were already using in whiskey distillation. It might open up more choices for you than a strictly Distillers yeast.
Then there’s [Imperial Yeast](https://www.imperialyeast.com/), which given they market themselves as “We are proud to be the only manufacturer of Certified Organic and Certified Kosher liquid brewing yeast in the world” makes me understand how tough your search has been.
Good luck! What an interesting job you have.
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### Author:  [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)
#### Post date: [February 29, 2020, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-know-what-organic-means/848606/37 "2020-02-29T07:26:59Z")
I had a friend who was in the Organic certification industry in Japan, so I heard a fair amount about it.
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