# Do you like the Brady-Jordan-Kobe-Jeter mentality? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 22, 2020, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304 "2020-05-22T18:23:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yankees_1996_Champs)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/1 "2020-05-22T18:23:48Z")
All of these athletes are world champions. They won championships. They expect to be in championship series. Tom Brady and Derek Jeter don’t want watch Super Bowls and World Series if they and their teams are not in it. It makes them sick. Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant were win at all costs, ultracompetitive. Do you like that mentality? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/2 "2020-05-22T18:29:15Z")
> [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant were win at all costs, ultracompetitive. Aren’t most professional athletes like this? Jordan and Bryant might just have more talent and played on better teams. The average second baseman on a thrid place team is probably also “win at all costs, ultra competitive” too. They’re just not getting it done. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/3 "2020-05-22T18:36:24Z")
Well, I’d temper “win at all costs” down to “win without cheating or being a dick about it”, but yeah, I expect professional athletes to play for keeps. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/4 "2020-05-22T18:43:54Z")
Not to pick on Tom Brady (but why not?), going to Tampa Bay doesn’t sound like someone who must win at all costs. It’s highly doubtful he’s going to win any more titles down there. [Hyping his own line of vitamins](http://forbes.com/sites/alexreimer/2020/05/20/tom-bradys-immunity-vitamins-are-unethical-and-misleading-medical-experts-say/#6c1faa956dba) that supposedly boost immune function (in the middle of a pandemic) _does_ sound like someone whose motto is “Sell at all costs”. I wonder if athletes who engage in sleazy activities like performance-enhancing drug-taking\* are into ego-promotion and salary-boosting more than “win at all costs”. \*not including the OP’s examples among that group. ---
**Author:** ![Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yankees_1996_Champs)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/5 "2020-05-22T19:00:14Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Not to pick on Tom Brady (but why not?), going to Tampa Bay doesn’t sound like someone who must win at all costs. It’s highly doubtful he’s going to win any more titles down there. > > [Hyping his own line of vitamins](http://forbes.com/sites/alexreimer/2020/05/20/tom-bradys-immunity-vitamins-are-unethical-and-misleading-medical-experts-say/#6c1faa956dba) that supposedly boost immune function (in the middle of a pandemic) _does_ sound like someone whose motto is “Sell at all costs”. > > I wonder if athletes who engage in sleazy activities like performance-enhancing drug-taking\* are into ego-promotion and salary-boosting more than “win at all costs”. > > \*not including the OP’s examples among that group. He can change the Buccaneers culture just like how the Patriots Way was installed in 2000 under Belichick, Kraft, Brady and Weis. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/6 "2020-05-22T19:54:40Z")
Many, many athletes have this mentality. The OP has simply listed 4 of the most successful in terms of team championships. I suppose Jordan and Brady can be separated from Jeter and Kobe, as the latter 2 were never the best players in their leagues, and in many seasons, not even on their own teams. Jordan, Kobe and Brady have certainly made public displays of their “intensity”, but I don’t think Jeter fits that profile. But back to the OP’s question, I love that mentality for athletes on my favorite teams. Not so much for people that I regularly interact with in my life. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/7 "2020-05-22T20:10:27Z")
I believe the OP is a very superficial understanding of sports. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/8 "2020-05-22T21:21:46Z")
I imagine most athletes have this mentality. You don’t even get anywhere close to the NBA, NFL etc. in the first place unless you already have a cutthroat alpha mentality. Such players are already the best of the best of the best. The only difference is that guys like Kobe and Brady actually were in a position to show the world their mentality. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/9 "2020-05-22T22:40:13Z")
> [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > He can change the Buccaneers culture just like how the Patriots Way was installed in 2000 under Belichick, Kraft, Brady and Weis. By the time the Buccaneers “culture” is sufficiently changed, they’ll have to wheel Brady onto the field. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/10 "2020-05-22T23:10:00Z")
Almost all professional athletes are competitive to an unusual extent. That’s one of the reasons they’re professional athletes. I don’t believe any of the athletes named in the OP were at all unusual. > [@Yankees 1996 Champs](#): > > He can change the Buccaneers culture just like how the Patriots Way was installed in 2000 under Belichick, Kraft, Brady and Weis. He’s not bringing Bill Belichick with him, though, is he? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/11 "2020-05-22T23:50:40Z")
Yes, it is a pretty common mentality, but some take it much further than others. For instance Schumacher and Senna both ran other people off the race course to win a championship. Most aren’t risking their life when others play dirty, but auto racers are. So, if you take that mentality too far, you’re a scumbag in my book. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/12 "2020-05-23T01:00:07Z")
Are you sure you didn’t mean to call it the Ruth-Mantle-DiMaggio-Gehrig-Jeter-Jeter-Jeter-Jeter-Pettite-Rivera-Posada-Steinbrenner-Torre-Pinstripes-Bronx-Subway mentality? ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/13 "2020-05-23T01:24:36Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Are you sure you didn’t mean to call it the Ruth-Mantle-DiMaggio-Gehrig-Jeter-Jeter-Jeter-Jeter-Pettite-Rivera-Posada-Steinbrenner-Torre-Pinstripes-Bronx-Subway mentality? Well, the first 4 weren’t on the ‘96 team. But Jeffrey Maier certainly had it! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/14 "2020-05-23T02:48:58Z")
I miss Grantland. Their [Captain diaries](https://grantland.com/the-triangle/derek-jeters-diary-role-players-the-olympics-and-trade-secrets/) did a great job of summing up Jeter’s mindset and were quite funny. To actually answer the OP. I think there are some guys that are more visibly intense but I think its mostly an act. Take Koby running off Shaq since he was tired of being #2 on the team. That isn’t a winner who wants nothing but to win. On the other hand to keep in the Yankee family everyone remembers [ARod’s ball slap](https://calltothepen.com/2019/04/13/alex-rodriguez-look-back-rods-cringe-worthy-moments/3/) in 2004. That was a win as all costs move why isn’t he on the list by Jeter. I think everyone wants to win and some train harder ([Cespedes](https://youtu.be/ej4AP-veuF8)) or study more (Manning) or cheat harder (Bonds) but they don’t make the OPs list. I think the lazy pro athlete is much more rare then the guy who will do what it takes to win. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/15 "2020-05-23T04:10:52Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I think everyone wants to win and some train harder ([Cespedes](https://youtu.be/ej4AP-veuF8)) or study more (Manning) or cheat harder (Bonds) but they don’t make the OPs list. I think the lazy pro athlete is much more rare then the guy who will do what it takes to win. Of course, the lazy pro athlete is soon not a pro athlete. It’s a self selecting group. If you’re lazy all along you will probably never make it anywhere near the pros. When I was 15 I had a teammate on my ballteam who was so talented it was stupid; he could hit a ball 450 feet, had speed, great arm, the works. But he had a terrible work ethic, and just didn’t care enough, and never got past high school. I doubt he could have even made a second tier college team or stayed on the squad because the coaches wouldn’t want a lazy player. It is really, really, really hard to keep up. The further you go, the less natural talent will push you through and the more you need to study the game. The seasons get longer and more taxing, the expectations higher. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/16 "2020-05-23T11:42:02Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > When I was 15 I had a teammate on my ballteam who was so talented it was stupid; he could hit a ball 450 feet, had speed, great arm, the works. But he had a terrible work ethic, and just didn’t care enough, and never got past high school. I doubt he could have even made a second tier college team or stayed on the squad because the coaches wouldn’t want a lazy player. It is really, really, really hard to keep up. The further you go, the less natural talent will push you through and the more you need to study the game. The seasons get longer and more taxing, the expectations higher. Was his name Joe Pepitone? 🙂 In his autobiography _The Mick_, Mantle spoke of Pepitone as being supremely talented–“a natural home run hitter”–who washed out because he didn’t take the game seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/17 "2020-05-23T12:45:16Z")
Being driven to win is one thing, but with some of those guys, you get the sense they don’t even enjoy the game they’re playing, you know? And that’s kind of sad. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/18 "2020-05-23T15:38:07Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Being driven to win is one thing, but with some of those guys, you get the sense they don’t even enjoy the game they’re playing, you know? And that’s kind of sad. Agree, this is the flip Side of their success. There are many anecdotal stories of super-competitive athletes who are unable to handle losing in any competition they enter. This is one reason I’m looking forward to watching the Tiger-Manning vs. Phil-Brady charity golf match tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/19 "2020-05-23T16:50:03Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > But back to the OP’s question, I love that mentality for athletes on my favorite teams. Not so much for people that I regularly interact with in my life. Exactly what I came to say. It also holds for CEOs of companies I’m invested in (with some modifications). ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304/20 "2020-05-23T18:45:38Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Being driven to win is one thing, but with some of those guys, you get the sense they don’t even enjoy the game they’re playing, you know? And that’s kind of sad. Jerry Rice mentioned this in his Hall of Fame induction speech. He lamented that he didn’t allow himself to enjoy his career while his career was ongoing. The man was so ruthlessly focused on self-improvement and not slacking off that he didn’t stop to smell the roses. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-the-brady-jordan-kobe-jeter-mentality/854304.md?page=2)