# Do you like thrillers with really sadistic, brutal criminals? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 21, 2025, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954 "2025-06-21T21:59:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2025, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/1 "2025-06-21T21:59:11Z")
Yesterday we turned on a TV show my wife had heard about -[The Escape Artist](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2649522/) with David Tenant. It was about a defense lawyer who never lost a case. Well, it turns out one client he gets off is a sadistic killer who turns against the lawyer and his family. Full disclosure, my wife and I aren’t really into this sort of psychological thriller. But we could’ve watched it if the torture/mutilation were a little less. I’m perfectly happy if folk want to say we are just a couple of old prudes. I know really ugly stuff happens in the real world. And I acknowledge that there is no real debating of taste. But it strikes me as odd that really brutal rape, torture, mutilation, and murder is presented as “entertainment.” I run into this in fiction as well. It isn’t enough that the bad guy is a killer. Instead, he has to kidnap, torture, and dismember children or something. I remember thinking it odd when I saw ads for Law and Order SVU that said something like, “There are some crimes that are so horrific that they cannot be handled by the regular police.” And I thought, “So we present them for your entertainment! Bring the kiddies!” Is anyone up for a discussion of the factors involved in presenting such IMO extreme material for entertainment? ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2025, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/2 "2025-06-21T22:00:33Z")
Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2025, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/3 "2025-06-21T22:15:40Z")
It all depends on the thriller. I’ve seen all the Bond movies They have ranged from boring-but-tolerable to great. Quote a lot of them feature brutal, sadistic killers. It’s somewhat satisfying to see them ended by Bond. **Expert Torturer** : Wait. I’m just a professional doing a job. **Bond** : Me too. (Shoots him) ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2025, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/4 "2025-06-21T22:42:07Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Quote a lot of them feature brutal, sadistic killers. I perceive somewhat of a difference between a Bond movie in which a henchman is a torture, and a show where the primary antagonist is a sadistic murderer. But I do not wish to quelch discussion. My wife and I periodically say we want to watch something with “no murder, rape, or mayhem.” We realize that, if taken literally, it would drastically limit our options. But we can enjoy a show ike The Sopranos or a movie like Goodfellas. They both have aplenty of violence. But it is not quite the same as the depraved criminal who tortures and mutilates his victims before killing them. And I perceive splatter horror as somewhat different, where one point is to shock you with over-the-top depictions. (Tho not my favorite genre.) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2025, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/5 "2025-06-21T23:11:34Z")
Depends on the show. Too much and I get bored with it. Howard Chaykin once used the term “boring psychopath” to describe the issue: people who are so nasty they are written just to make them uninteresting. If the character is made unpredictable, then they might be worth it. And I don’t mean coming up with new and sadistic ways to kill people; I’d rather they _not_ kill people in situations that they’d be expected to. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2025, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/6 "2025-06-21T23:41:03Z")
Naw, I’ve walked away from some otherwise good shows because there was too much brutality in them. That’s very much not what i enjoy for entertainment. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2025, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/7 "2025-06-21T23:45:59Z")
This is why I rarely watch tv or go to the movies anymore. The level of graphic violence that is common just turns me off. _Dexter_ and _The Blacklist_ sound horrible to me. And that’s on tv; movies have always been more violent. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/8 "2025-06-22T00:06:47Z")
I’m not a thriller fan in general. But I have given up (or at least thought about it) more than one book in the “romantic suspense” type sub-genre because of too much attention being paid to how brutal and nasty (and not just inclined to rape, but to pedophilia and probably drugging and killing of sex partners). And while I’ve enjoyed most of the J.D. Robb mysteries featuring Eve Dallas, there’ve been some that have erred on the side of too graphic and nasty. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/9 "2025-06-22T00:10:51Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > _Dexter_ and _The Blacklist_ sound horrible to me. And that’s on tv; movies have always been more violent. I watched a couple of eps of Dexter. The idea caught my attention. But it was just too sick and twisted. ISTR we started The Blacklist as well. We tend to like Spader. I forget why we stopped quickly. ISTR the violence was too over-the-top. Don’t get me wrong. I’ve got nothing against a murder mystery. Or even protagonist who is a bad guy. I LOVE Lawrence Block’s Keller series. Or Thomas Perry’s “Butcher’s Boy” books. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/10 "2025-06-22T00:16:54Z")
Dexter is a show i stopped watching because it was too nasty. I enjoyed Agatha Christie murder mysteries, though. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/11 "2025-06-22T00:18:04Z")
I found _Dexter_’s gore to be mostly anticipatory, not stuff shown on-camera. The opening sequence {{shudder}} was worse than most of what was shown onscreen. I missed most of the last 2 seasons, though, due to bad plot. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/12 "2025-06-22T00:20:09Z")
Yeah - the gore was not explicit. I forget - did he torture his victims, or just kill them? I just thought he was too creepy for me to want to watch more of it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/13 "2025-06-22T00:29:24Z")
Is a given character doing this for money? Or revenge? Or a political cause? Or to keep his kid out of prison? Or any one of half a hundred other things? Sure, I’ll watch a character brutally kill someone for an interesting reason; I watched every episode of COLUMBO, and didn’t care how brutal the kills were or weren’t; the brutality wasn’t the point. Is he doing this because he’s just the kind of guy who enjoys inflicting pain on an innocent? That’s — not really interesting, to me. Brutality for some other reason? Tell me a story. Brutality for the sake of brutality? _That’s_ the story? Yeah, I’m less interested in that story. I mean, you really have to work for it, at that point; I’m not saying you can’t get there, but, jeez, it’s an uphill climb. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/14 "2025-06-22T00:33:10Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I forget - did he torture his victims, or just kill them? He didn’t torture them. He’d restrain them while they were unconsconsious. They’d awaken Saran-wrapped to the table to see photos of their victims above them so they’d know why they were there, then Dexter would give them a mighty stab to the heart, off-camera. The anticipation was what made it so horrible, but really, very little was shown. There _was_ at least one notable time with excess blood, but that was a flashback to show why Dexter was Dexter. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/15 "2025-06-22T00:35:21Z")
But he did it because he liked to kill people, and this was how he could justify it to himself. That really turned me off. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/16 "2025-06-22T00:42:23Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > But he did it because he liked to kill people, and this was how he could justify it to himself. Yes, his father trained him to kill only people who needed killing that the system couldn’t put away (“Harry’s code”)\*. If someone had killed them reluctantly, I wonder whether it would have had a different effect on you? I can’t stand most gore, but I can tolerate _some_ off camera. \*which he clearly violated later in the series. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/17 "2025-06-22T00:47:49Z")
I don’t love excess gore and for that reason, I’ve been avoiding The Boys, which I hear is all kinds of gory. Having said that, I have The Cabin in the Woods on Blu Ray and that movie has some absurd gore at the end. Yet somehow the absurdity of it works. The best balance in my opinion was Prey, a recent film in the Predator franchise. The Predator is of course an absolutely brutal killer and when he starts in on the humans, he’s chopping limbs off, tearing spines out and using a constricting net to turn a dude into hamburger. But the gore discretion shots are all on the tasteful side, letting you know what happened without throwing a steaming pile of guts in your face. It was gory but it wasn’t gross. Well, there were a couple of gross moments but they were pretty brief. Just enough to get me to flinch and then it was done. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/18 "2025-06-22T00:51:11Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I LOVE Lawrence Block’s Keller series. Or Thomas Perry’s “Butcher’s Boy” books. Sweet! Two new (to me) authors to check out. I also like murder mysteries and thrillers, but I see no reason to watch (or read about) violent, sadistic assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/19 "2025-06-22T00:59:12Z")
I never really thought of Jean Jacket as a sadistic, brutal criminal, but you may be on to something… ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954/20 "2025-06-22T01:20:56Z")
I don’t enjoy gore, but it doesn’t bother me. It’s pain and fear and cruelty i avoid in literature. I once watched a photo montage of a pig being slaughtered. The terrified pig tied into position was horrifying. But once they’d killed the pig, i found the gory parts of butchering kind of interesting. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-like-thrillers-with-really-sadistic-brutal-criminals/1019954.md?page=2)