# Do you pay attention to real American heroes? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 1, 2008, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653 "2008-11-01T23:57:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/1 "2008-11-01T23:57:35Z")
I’m just curious about how much attention people are paying to the war. Specificly I’m wondering if you can say how many Congressional Medals of Honor have been give out in the current conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. Not, Google it and tell me; I already know. I’m looking for what is you guess off the top of you head. The answer is here: 4 in Iraq, 1 in Afghanistan ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/2 "2008-11-02T00:05:41Z")
No, I don’t pay attention to who is awarded Congressional medals of honor. Since you asked. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/3 "2008-11-02T13:56:38Z")
Sure I do. American deaths: 4189 in Iraq, 625 in Afghanistan. As for who’s won medals for their service in these debacles? I have no doubt that they deserve it (especially the Purple Heart recipients), but those numbers don’t matter quite so much to me given the bigger picture. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/4 "2008-11-02T14:47:05Z")
> [@chacoguy420](#): > > Specificly I’m wondering if you can say how many Congressional Medals of Honor have been give out in the current conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yes, I knew. I know the man who trained two previous recipients of that medal (Somalia) and I respect him like no one else, and if I ever have the honor of seeing a man wearing one, he will get my heartfelt thanks and respect. Sadly, I probably won’t ever get the chance. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/5 "2008-11-02T16:08:38Z")
I guess this has answered my real question. This thread has gotten way fewer views and responses than the one about the dead parakeet. Whatever your views about the war, all of these guys died trying to protect their buddies. That should be worth _something_. ---
**Author:** ![MissIntent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/97f17d/32.png) [@MissIntent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissIntent)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/6 "2008-11-02T16:10:33Z")
I also read the book Lone Survivor, which is a mix of heartbreaking and hilarious, though mostly heartbreaking. Amongst other things, it gives a very extreme account of what Micheal Murphy did to earn his Medal of Honor in Afghanistan. I recommend that book to anyone. It’s about Operation Red Wing, which resulted in the deaths of 19 members of the special forces. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/7 "2008-11-02T16:28:13Z")
> [@chacoguy420](#): > > Whatever your views about the war, all of these guys died trying to protect their buddies. That should be worth _something_. It is. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_In_Black)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/8 "2008-11-02T20:03:51Z")
This is off-topic from the question in the thread, but it is on-topic with the question in the thread title. My hero is Marian Fisher. She was a 13 year old girl who gave her life in an attempt to save the lives of the younger girls in her class. On October 2, 2006 a lone gunman walked into a one room school house in West Nickel Mines, PA. He ordered the teachers and male students out, and after a 45min standoff with State Troopers he began to shoot the young girls. Five were killed and five were injured. Marian Fisher asked the gunamn to shoot her first, in hopes that the younger girls might have a chance to escape. Marian died at the scene. She is a true American hero to me. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/9 "2008-11-02T20:56:42Z")
I watched Bush give the Mom and Dad the Medal of Honor for their son. I forget his name, but he threw himself onto a grenade of some kind to save his mates. Bush was unable to talk he was so choked up. In the end, he just waved the family up and gave them the medal. Ah, I found it. [Ross MicGinnis, true hero](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_A._McGinnis) ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/10 "2008-11-02T21:37:55Z")
> [@chacoguy420](#): > > I guess this has answered my real question. This thread has gotten way fewer views and responses than the one about the dead parakeet. Whatever your views about the war, all of these guys died trying to protect their buddies. That should be worth _something_. The problem I have with this thread is not questioning the bravery of the soldiers who died, but in the overall picture. These men were sent by Bush on a lie (there were no WMDs; the Iraqis were not going to give them flowers), then when they do amazing things, the same inept pathetic man gives them a medal … and cries. Would you like to say how many George Medals have been awarded to British troops in Iraq and Afghanistan? The three most recent recipients of the GC have been Army personnel serving in Afghanistan and Iraq. One was awarded posthumously for gallantry displayed both before and after sustaining mortal injuries when entering a minefield in Afghanistan. The other two were awarded for service in Iraq, for gallantry displayed in a ‘friendly-fire’ incident and for gallantry displayed after receiving severe injuries caused by an Improvised Explosive Device. All were hugely courageous acts, although not in actual presence of the enemy, and therefore were successfully considered for award of the GC. And how many Victoria Crosses? On 18 March 2005, Private Johnson Gideon Beharry of the 1st Battalion, Princess of Wales’s Royal Regiment became the first recipient of the VC since the posthumous award to Sgt Ian McKay, 3rd Battalion, Parachute Regiment in 1982. Beharry was cited for “valour of the highest order” during the Iraq War. He is included in a list of more than 140 British troops awarded honours for roles in Iraq, Afghanistan, Northern Ireland, the Balkans, Liberia, Sierra Leone, the United Kingdom and Congo. So you can understand how bitterly we feel here in the UK about Bush, can you tell me why these brave men were there in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/11 "2008-11-02T21:39:51Z")
> [@glee](#): > > The problem I have with this thread is not questioning the bravery of the soldiers who died, but in the overall picture. > > These men were sent by Bush on a lie There’s your problem. No, he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/12 "2008-11-02T21:42:35Z")
They didn’t do it for Bush. They did it for the man or men next to them. It makes no difference whatsoever who was President, who sent them there, or why. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/13 "2008-11-02T21:47:25Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > There’s your problem. No, he didn’t. I don’t want to hijack the thread, but this has all been proved in many threads here… ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/14 "2008-11-02T22:00:11Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > They didn’t do it for Bush. They did it for the man or men next to them. It makes no difference whatsoever who was President, who sent them there, or why. > > :mad: I’m sorry if you’re upset. The reason I’m furious is that this was a terrible waste of courageous men - just like the First World War where [millions of British and Allied troops were told to charge across muddy fields to attack fortified machine-gun positions.](http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/FWWcasualties.htm) [If they refused, they were shot. If they suffered shell-shock, they were called cowards.](http://firstworldwar.cloudworth.com/cowards-executed-war.php) Similarly Vietnam was a terrible waste of lives, based on [the Gulf of Tonkin pretext](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident). So it certainly does make a difference who sent them and why, because (as Santayana said) “Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it.” ---
**Author:** ![Emergency911](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/43a26b/32.png) [@Emergency911](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emergency911)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/15 "2008-11-02T22:07:43Z")
I know the answer and would have replied sooner, but I’ve been busy. I agree with you, they are true heros. I refuse to argue why or how they ended up over there, because the end result is that they are over there and have to deal with it. They are all heros. Not to take anything away from the soldiers that protect our freedoms abroad, but most of my personal heros are fire and police officers…they protect us here at home! ---
**Author:** ![CutterJohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@CutterJohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CutterJohn)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/16 "2008-11-02T22:39:41Z")
I never felt like a hero. I was in the Navy, and was never in any danger at all, but still when I got home(especially back to small town Iowa), I was given a heroes welcome, and had all sorts of qualities ascribed to me that made me 😕 . I made the propellers continue to go roundy roundy so the ship could move, the exact same job I was doing before the war. In fact, I preferred war, since the chow lines were open 24/7 then, making getting a meal far easier. I eventually stopped trying to tell people that I wasn’t a noble, self sacrificing hero, and was just doing a job for a paycheck, because they simply didn’t want to hear it, couldn’t understand it, and would get upset that I wasn’t agreeing with them. I pay attention to the war, but they aren’t all heroes over their. Many, if not a majority, are just in it for a paycheck. ---
**Author:** ![Emergency911](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/43a26b/32.png) [@Emergency911](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emergency911)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/17 "2008-11-02T23:55:25Z")
> [@CutterJohn](#): > > I never felt like a hero. I was in the Navy, and was never in any danger at all, but still when I got home(especially back to small town Iowa), I was given a heroes welcome, and had all sorts of qualities ascribed to me that made me 😕 . I made the propellers continue to go roundy roundy so the ship could move, the exact same job I was doing before the war. In fact, I preferred war, since the chow lines were open 24/7 then, making getting a meal far easier. > > I eventually stopped trying to tell people that I wasn’t a noble, self sacrificing hero, and was just doing a job for a paycheck, because they simply didn’t want to hear it, couldn’t understand it, and would get upset that I wasn’t agreeing with them. > > I pay attention to the war, but they aren’t all heroes over their. Many, if not a majority, are just in it for a paycheck. I think it’s always hard for many being called a hero to actually accept the title. I have had the title bestowed on me a couple of times, and never really understood how me simply doing my job can be considered heroic. I find its easier to just smile and say thank you to most. What I have figured out is that many people can’t do my job, not so much from lack of training, but the lack of a drive to run into something while everyone else is running out. As you said, you did nothing special, but you did your job, your job may not mean a lot by itself, but when everyone does their job, the end result is an overall success/victory. When I do the fireman friendly talks to groups, heroism usually comes up in the question/answer period. I usually tell them the same thing about jobs, and tell them that while they may look at me as a hero, If they do “thier jobs” when a fire call comes out, that we look at them, (the general public), as our heros. Then I mention that their jobs are to change and check their smoke detectors, so if they have a fire, everyone can get out safely, or if they are on the road, pull to the right and stop so we can get to the emergency a little faster , and so on. I know this sounds hokey, but in all honesty, I believe in this. We are all heros to someone, somewhere and we should all try to do our jobs as heros every day. //jumps off soap box ///end hijack ////sorry!😃 ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/18 "2008-11-03T00:18:22Z")
> [@glee](#): > > The reason I’m furious is that this was a terrible waste of courageous men … _snip_… > > So it certainly does make a difference who sent them and why, because (as Santayana said) “Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it.” Well, if you look at it one way, war is always a waste of courageous men, and leaders will continue to put them in harm’s way until the end of time. Looking at it another way, some men were born warriors and heroes and their courage is never wasted. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/19 "2008-11-03T01:03:53Z")
I was hoping, futilely, to keep politics out of this and not turn this into another ‘Just War’ rant. It simply struck me that all five of these men died to save their buddies; not trying to take a hill, not trying to kill bad guys, just trying to protect their friends. At the moment, clearly, politics didn’t matter. So, they received their Nation’s Highest award. Did anyone notice or care? I’m not even saying that it lessens who you are if you don’t care; that’s your business. I’m just wondering where this is on our radar screens. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/20 "2008-11-03T01:17:38Z")
> [@chacoguy420](#): > > I was hoping, futilely, to keep politics out of this and not turn this into another ‘Just War’ rant. It simply struck me that all five of these men died to save their buddies; not trying to take a hill, not trying to kill bad guys, just trying to protect their friends. At the moment, clearly, politics didn’t matter. So, they received their Nation’s Highest award. **Did anyone notice or care?** I’m not even saying that it lessens who you are if you don’t care; that’s your business. I’m just wondering where this is on our radar screens. The problem is there is no publicity when a Medal of Honor is awarded. I think the least that could be done is a Federal holiday when a MOH is awarded and flags flown at half-mast if posthumous. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653.md?page=2)