# Do you pay attention to real American heroes? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 1, 2008, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653 "2008-11-01T23:57:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/21 "2008-11-03T02:12:51Z")
Agreed- I think it should be in the headlines everywhere when it is awarded, every single time. To consider it “not newsworthy” is, in my opinion, shameful. ---
**Author:** ![Peanuthead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peanuthead/32/360_2.png) [@Peanuthead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanuthead)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/22 "2008-11-03T03:33:42Z")
Thank you for bringing this up **Chacoguy**. I’m embarrassed to say that I didn’t know the answer and saddened to know that they were all awarded posthumously. The only CMOH recipient I can name is Audie Murphy from WWII. And that’s only because he made movies. Maybe we should petition congress to reserve a national day of recognition for our “true American heroes”\*. And regardless of what your views on this or any other war are, you must accord these soldiers the title of heroes. \*Yes, I know we have Veterans Day, and Memorial Day but I am a veteran and in no way do I consider myself in the same category with a CMOH recipient. (And I ain’t dead yet) Peanuthead - US Navy 1968 - 1972 **EJsGirl:** I like you ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/23 "2008-11-03T04:00:23Z")
> [@chacoguy420](#): > > I was hoping, futilely, to keep politics out of this and not turn this into another ‘Just War’ rant. It simply struck me that all five of these men died to save their buddies; not trying to take a hill, not trying to kill bad guys, just trying to protect their friends. At the moment, clearly, politics didn’t matter. So, they received their Nation’s Highest award. Did anyone notice or care? I’m not even saying that it lessens who you are if you don’t care; that’s your business. I’m just wondering where this is on our radar screens. The way to keep politics out of it is to call the thread “Medal of Honor recipients/honorees” and not “_Real_ American Heroes,” which implies a contrast with other sorts of heroes counting for less. Speaking of contrasting one kind of hero unfavorably over another, I’d like to note the CMOH is our nations highest _military_ award, not necessarily higher than civilian awards. That said, I think it’s amazing what the CMOH honorees have done, and they have my respect. I also think that counting either medals or body bags is, in either case, needlessly reducing a complex issue to bean-counting. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/24 "2008-11-03T04:55:30Z")
> [@Emergency911](#): > > I know the answer and would have replied sooner, but I’ve been busy. I agree with you, they are true heros. I refuse to argue why or how they ended up over there, because the end result is that they are over there and have to deal with it. They are all heros. They are thugs engaged in an occupation of a conquered and ruined land. Nothing they do is admirable; none of them are heroes. Using your “it doesn’t matter why they are there” definition, a Nazi SS thug who shot a Jew to keep his fellow genocide from being shot or stabbed was a “hero”. The cause people are fighting for does matter, and nothing done for an evil cause is heroic. And our cause in Iraq is evil. Calling our soldiers there “heroes” cheapens the term. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/25 "2008-11-03T05:10:19Z")
**Der Trihs** , save your bile for those who got us into this war. That was an ugly thing to bring into this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/26 "2008-11-03T05:26:25Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I watched Bush give the Mom and Dad the Medal of Honor for their son. > > I forget his name, but he threw himself onto a grenade of some kind to save his mates. > > Bush was unable to talk he was so choked up. In the end, he just waved the family up and gave them the medal. > > Ah, I found it. > > [Ross MicGinnis, true hero](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_A._McGinnis) May I add this, written better than I could ever do > [@](#): > > Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand > Between their loved home and the war’s desolation! > -Francis Scott Key The Star Spangled Banner ::: raises a glass to these mens memory::: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/27 "2008-11-03T05:45:13Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They are thugs engaged in an occupation of a conquered and ruined land. Nothing they do is admirable; none of them are heroes. Using your “it doesn’t matter why they are there” definition, a Nazi SS thug who shot a Jew to keep his fellow genocide from being shot or stabbed was a “hero”. The cause people are fighting for does matter, and nothing done for an evil cause is heroic. And our cause in Iraq is evil. > > Calling our soldiers there “heroes” cheapens the term. [Moderator Admonition]You know this isn’t appropriate for IMHO[/Moderator Admonition] ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/28 "2008-11-03T06:14:53Z")
I used to watch _G.I. Joe_ all the time. Does that count? ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/29 "2008-11-03T06:21:11Z")
Ah, “real” American heroes. I’m interested to know about the fake ones for comparison? > [@](#): > > I used to watch G.I. Joe all the time. Does that count? It’s not real unless it was G.I. Joe _the Plumber_, from real America. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/30 "2008-11-03T06:32:41Z")
Without reading any farther than the first post (the op) I would venture a way-off guess of 12 MOH awarded during the current Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts. Since this post will be appearing so late in the thread I may look like quite a fool, but I thought it would be fun to take a stab at it from the very start of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/31 "2008-11-03T08:11:12Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > Well, if you look at it one way, war is always a waste of courageous men, and leaders will continue to put them in harm’s way until the end of time. Looking at it another way, some men were born warriors and heroes and their courage is never wasted. But if all men were cowardly and selfish, there would be no more wars. Ironic, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/32 "2008-11-03T19:52:54Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > They didn’t do it for Bush. They did it for the man or men next to them. It makes no difference whatsoever who was President, who sent them there, or why. But that makes them “just following orders”, not heroic. Blindly following orders regardless of the mission or outcome isn’t heroic. And if people didn’t allow themselves to be used as cannonfodder, maybe the administration would have to use other more peaceful means. The OP asks, Are we paying attention to the war? To the estimated 1.2 million Iraqi **civilians** killed? [http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq/iraqdeaths.html](http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq/iraqdeaths.html) ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/33 "2008-11-04T00:46:09Z")
No, **Gigi** , that’s not it at all. “Blindly following orders” does not earn a man the CMOH. If you were to read the citations of the men who have earned it in the last 20 years, you would see that. For example, here are the citations for [Gary Gordon and Randy Shughart](http://www.history.army.mil/html/moh/somalia.html), two Delta operators who earned the CMOH attempting to save the life of a fellow soldier in the face of overwhelming force. It’s not about the cause, it’s about the man. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/34 "2008-11-04T00:51:31Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > **Der Trihs** , save your bile for those who got us into this war. That was an ugly thing to bring into this thread. This is an ugly thread, at least for someone who doesn’t automatically see America as the good guy in this. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/35 "2008-11-04T00:56:28Z")
Nitpick - it is not the Congressional Medal of Honor. It’s just the Medal of Honor. And you get it, specifically, for going above and beyond the call of duty, not for following orders. Unfortunately, it seems to be an unofficial rule now that you have to be dead first. There was a thread a while ago where examples were given of obvious Medal candidates who haven’t received it, presumably because they didn’t die. ETA - Seriously, **Der Trihs** , tacky. There’s a time and a place, and this isn’t it. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653/36 "2008-11-04T02:26:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > This is an ugly thread, at least for someone who doesn’t automatically see America as the good guy in this. I don’t automatically see America as the “good guy” in any situation. I think you need to pull your head out of your ass. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-pay-attention-to-real-american-heroes/470653.md?page=1)