# Do you, personally, owe anything to the greater good? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 25, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-personally-owe-anything-to-the-greater-good/669665 "2013-09-25T19:13:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-personally-owe-anything-to-the-greater-good/669665/41 "2013-09-26T01:22:03Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > \*\*silenus \*\*, **DeweyDecibel** , and \*\*Spice Weasel \*\*say they are acting for the “greater good”, but they are not. They are simply pursuing careers that best meet their particular needs. If they really cared about the “greater good”, they would have become lawyers, consultants or politicians where they would actually have a greater ability to effect change to larger numbers of people. Dude, I touch the future. I have a greater ability to change things for more people, _by my own actions_, than any lawyer ever could. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-personally-owe-anything-to-the-greater-good/669665/42 "2013-09-26T02:28:11Z")
I’m with monstro. I don’t owe nobody jack, and no one owes me jack. But I have been on the receiving end of plenty of charity. And I am the type who takes actual joy in giving to the poor or downtrodden or homeless or hungry or even the poor wino needing a drink. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-personally-owe-anything-to-the-greater-good/669665/43 "2013-09-26T03:29:43Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Who other than a sociopath would say no to this question? Me. Taking the original question I can’t think of a single example where I believe I would deliberately go without something because it was somehow for the benefit of the greater good. I interpret the question as being similar to the old crock pedelled by parents to “eat up all your food, there’s starving people in Africa”. Like somehow me refusing to eat over cooked beans is going to contribute to them starving. The original question is: > [@](#): > > Are there any circumstances in which you believe that, though a given action, practice, indulgence, or whatnot would be to your personal benefit, you should nonetheless forbear for the sake of the greater good? Again, I interpret that literally that is there a circumstance where I would go without something because it was for the greater good. My answer is No. I’ll give to charity, but I don’t go without because of it. I’ll help others out but not to my own detriment. people who do act altruistically in this sense in my opinion aren’t often actually going without, because they actually personally benefit from what they do in one way shape or form, whether it be spiritual, emotionally or psychologically. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-personally-owe-anything-to-the-greater-good/669665/44 "2013-09-26T05:10:30Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Are there any circumstances in which you believe that, though a given action, practice, indulgence, or whatnot would be to your personal benefit, you should nonetheless forbear for the sake of the greater good? Yes, absolutely. We’re all in a society here; to just do things that I want to do without ever thinking of anyone else would be borderline sociopathic. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-personally-owe-anything-to-the-greater-good/669665/45 "2013-09-26T11:42:54Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Everyone who said they don’t owe anything also said they do nice things anyway, so we’re probably just saying things in a different way. But to me, doing something for the greater good just means doing nice/positive/helpful things that don’t directly benefit you. I don’t see how someone could think they have no obligation to ever do that. You’ve been the beneficiaries of those actions many times and society would be a very unpleasant place (if there was even society at all) if no one ever did anything that didn’t benefit them directly. So why wouldn’t you be obligated to do your part? Not necessarily a specific thing, not EVERYTHING you could possibly do…but some things. For me, to say I feel obligated to be a good person means that I’m being good not because I like being good or because I have a huge self-interest in being good, but rather because I’m motivated out of guilt, a sense of responsibility, and/or a desire to reciprocate goodwill. I admit that sometimes I extend myself out of guilt. Like, I might give money to a homeless person not because I care for that person, but because I am embarrassed by my own good fortune and don’t want to appear stingy. But I don’t feel responsible for that homeless guy or society. I’m just a little cog in the machine just like everyone else. I care about what happens to society because what happens to society affects me, ultimately. I also care because I like having the right to complain. In my opinion, you can’t complain if you ain’t about doing something. So at the end of the day, it’s still all about me. I suppose this makes me sound borderline sociopathic. Hey, at least I’ll be an honest one. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-personally-owe-anything-to-the-greater-good/669665/46 "2013-09-26T12:10:23Z")
[QUOTE=R. P. McMurphy] Absolutely. We are social beings. Look outside. Every car, street, bridge, building, governing body, security system, whatever is a product of individuals working together for the greater good. The evil ones are the ones that exploit those working for the greater good for their own enrichment. [/quote] Actually that’s not true at all. Every car, street, bridge, building and whatnot is a product of individuals freely working together for their own self-interest. The engineer, construction worker, carmaker, policeman, lawyer and teacher all work because they get paid for their services. Cars are built and buildings are constructed because someone believes there is money to be made by selling or renting them out. The happy byproduct of people freely working in their own self-interest is that Adam Smith’s invisible hand ultimately does benefit society as a whole. > [@Blackberry](#): > > A Libertarian or Randian who actually understands what they’re advocating and the implications of it (which a lot of them don’t) is definitely a sociopath. What Libertarians or Objectivists (the actual term for people who follow Ayn Rand’s philosophy) are against is the collectivist ideologies where individuals are forced to sacrifice their own interests in the name of the “greater good”. Someone’s need does not give them the right to take from other people. ---
**Author:** ![DrumBum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@DrumBum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrumBum)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-personally-owe-anything-to-the-greater-good/669665/47 "2013-09-26T12:17:03Z")
I am a firm and frequent proponent of the “Random acts of kindness” method of giving. Needless to say, it is quite easy to do over here. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-personally-owe-anything-to-the-greater-good/669665/48 "2013-09-26T15:19:47Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I think I have an obligation to do the right thing, whether it benefits me or not. Not only the kinds of things that **Evil Captor** talks about, but also, as an example, to draw internal attention to business practices in my company that might be a little shady so they can be remedied, rather than just going quietly along with them. > > But I don’t think this is so much an obligation to the greater good as it is an obligation to my own character, so I don’t hate myself. > > I don’t know if that is precisely what you mean, OP, because contrary to most of your threads, the intent of this one is not clear to me. > Roddy Please don’t take this as an insult, but I seriously doubt you know the intent of most of my threads; you only think you do. I had no greater intent in this thread than to start an interesting discussion and to learn something about people, or at least my fellow Dopers. I’m not trying to make a point. ---
**Author:** ![stolatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@stolatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolatt)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-personally-owe-anything-to-the-greater-good/669665/49 "2013-09-26T17:30:18Z")
I guess my perception of helping others is selfish. I’ve staked this claim on my little corner of the world and if I can help it, things get righted. Sort of a not in my family, not with my friends, not in my community, not where I am right now. Because if I don’t do what I can, I have to live with what’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Strangeland64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@Strangeland64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strangeland64)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-personally-owe-anything-to-the-greater-good/669665/50 "2013-09-26T17:55:46Z")
Yes. Although in the end, the greater good always comes back to benefit me personally, as it does everyone, speaking for myself, it is only in believing there is a greater good that I find some kind of point to work toward. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-personally-owe-anything-to-the-greater-good/669665/51 "2013-09-26T18:14:37Z")
There is a real emotional pay off for doing your “good deed of the day” or freely working for the greater social good. It is like hitting the endorphin button. If it made you feel miserable you wouldn’t do it. It feels good. That is a motivation of self interest. Hit the endorphin button. The more difficult the task, the greater the reward. So I don’t really believe in altruism. I think that all who think they are doing things for the greater social good are really, at the basis of their mind and soul, doing it for themselves. The chemical and emotional rewards for charity probably do have a basis in human evolution and could be a driving factor in the success of the species. It’s hitting your own personal endorphin button, for your own personal reward. It seems like your are doing things for others but it’s for you. And I will also sign in as one of those people paid to do the greater social good. When I have a really successful result, I am emotionally and chemically rewarded beyond my pay. But I know that I am not doing God’s Work, or Making a Difference, or any of the other things we tell ourselves when we support our fellow Man. I’m doing it for me. And you are doing it for you. That is the cold, honest answer. It is nurturing behavior that rewards the caregiver. The same type of reward a parent gets when their children do well. The same concern when they don’t. We are hitting our evolutionary successful, personal reward button. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-personally-owe-anything-to-the-greater-good/669665/52 "2013-09-26T20:03:20Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Dude, I touch the future. I have a greater ability to change things for more people, _by my own actions_, than any lawyer ever could. Actually my point is that YOU get to decide how you want to contribute good to the world (assuming you do). The “greatest good” might decide that your skills would be better utilized as an attorney, whether you like it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-personally-owe-anything-to-the-greater-good/669665/53 "2013-09-26T20:08:04Z")
I decline to kill people who anger me. I haven’t really thought in any depth about whether I am doing this for the greater good (ei, a more civil society), or for my own good (ie, avoiding punishment). Is this lack of consideration of the question some kind of problem? ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-personally-owe-anything-to-the-greater-good/669665/54 "2013-09-26T21:24:54Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I feel that doing things “for the greater good” is something a lot of us do without recognizing it. For example, I have on several occasions found people’s wallets, keys, cell phones, etc., in my life, and I always returned them to the owner or to the lost and found. I didn’t loot the wallets, use the keys to try to find a vehicle I could steal, or keep the cell phone for my own. I didn’t do it out of fear of getting caught, I did it because it was the right thing to do, even at times when I was economically desperate. People have done the same for me: returned my wallet when I’ve lost it. All this contributes to the greater good, of living in a society where people are honest and can expect honesty from others. > > Contrast this with a place like Mexico, where you cannot send anything of any value through the mail because it will be stolen. It’s what the Mexican postal service does. When dishonesty exists on such a wide scale, life gets harder. Honesty is a gift we all give each other. Here in the US it’s expected, and not always recognized as the extremely valuable social commodity it is. We recognize how rare it is in the political world or on Wall Street, but we rarely think what life would be like without it. > > So, honesty I would call a gift given for the sake of the greater good, and one that is generally very common and largely unrecognized. This. Plus a wee bit extra, that is, everyone who is working and paying taxes is, as part and parcel of the workaday world, giving back to the greater good. Our blood, sweat, and tears is what funds the infrastructure of “the greater good”. ---
**Author:** ![sunstone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunstone/32/3372_2.png) [@sunstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunstone)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-personally-owe-anything-to-the-greater-good/669665/55 "2013-09-28T02:44:33Z")
Yes. A part of being a social being like a human or wolf is that we are tied to our community. We are by definition obliged to act as a member of that community, reaping the benefits and incurring the obligations. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-personally-owe-anything-to-the-greater-good/669665/56 "2013-09-28T17:18:20Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > \ > > I’m doing it for me. And you are doing it for you. That is the cold, honest answer. It is nurturing behavior that rewards the caregiver. The same type of reward a parent gets when their children do well. The same concern when they don’t. > > We are hitting our evolutionary successful, personal reward button. > [@sunstone](#): > > Yes. A part of being a social being like a human or wolf is that we are tied to our community. We are by definition obliged to act as a member of that community, reaping the benefits and incurring the obligations. I don’t think you can really separate the two. I do things that benefit the society I live in because I live in it, and I want to live in a nice society. That doesn’t change the fact that some of the things I do actually _do_ benefit the society as a whole. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-personally-owe-anything-to-the-greater-good/669665.md?page=2)