Yeah. “Dark L” is just how /l/ is pronounced before consonants or at the ends of syllables.
That said, there is something called L-vocalization where the L is still pronounced, but partially or even completely converted to a semivowel, like [w]. I know it primarily as a feature of AAE (African American English) but I do think it may occur in other varieties of English in these spots.
I thought of salmon’s pair: salve.
I’m an L pronouncer but I do not pronounce the L in either salmon or salve.
Instead of polling everyone about salve specifically, I’m curious if there’s anyone that pronounces the L differently between salmon and salve.
Not pronouncing the ‘L’ would be like saying ‘woof’ instead of ‘wolf’.
I don’t say the L in salmon but I do say it in salve. “Savv” like it rhymes with “chav” sounds weird. Salve is not really a word I hear often. Interestingly I would say the L in “balm”, as it’s a different vowel sound than “calm” or “palm.”
That is interesting. I use the same dark L and vowel sound for all three.
Are there other alm words that you pronounce like balm?
I sometimes say the L in salve, and sometimes don’t. I never say it in salmon.
I think salve is one of those words I heard growing up but also read in books, not knowing it was the same word. I tend to think of the verb as having the L and the noun without.
“Alms” I guess. I don’t have the Mary/Marry merger so to me balm is “bawlm” and calm and palm are “cahlm” and “pahlm.” (Yes I realize those who do have the merger think those are all identical.)
That makes sense. I have the merry/marry merger.
Isn’t that the cot/caught merger y’all are talking about there?
I have the Mary/marry/merry merger, but not caught-cot. “Bawlm” and “cahlm” and “pahlm” are two sets of sounds. “Ah” and “aw” is cot-caught merger, not the Mary merger. That said, for me “balm,” “calm,” and “palm” are pronounced with the “aw” sound for me.
Calm, Balm, Alm, Palm, Qualm, Psalm. - All involve touching the tip of my tongue to the roof of my mouth creating an “L” sound that isn’t present if there is no “L” in the spelling.
In my UK dialect, ‘balm’ and ‘barm’ sound pretty much identical. Calm = carm, psalm = sarm, and so on.
Interesting. I do not make the velarized “dark” L by lifting up the tip of my tongue at all, let alone letting it touch. It’s the blade (just behind the tip) near the alveolar ridge. And then, of course, the back of my tongue reaches up towards the velum, or soft palate–hence the term “velarized.”
As a counter example, I’ve always heard “psalm” pronounced with a distinct L. I guess there’s an unwritten rule about not having two silent letters in a one syllable word
Yup. I do.
I don’t think I’ve ever used the word “salve”.
ETA: The first time I ever heard the word was on November 13, 1993. I had splashed some oil on my arm and gotten quite a burn for it, so I saw a doctor who prescribed a salve. At first, I had no idea what he said, and thought it was a language issue (English was clearly not his first language).
Lots more people nowadays salve their conscience by some act of contrition or denial than slather salve on their skin.
I’d be a bit surprised if you haven’t at least thought the phrase “salve my / our / your / his / her / their conscience(s)”.
I do not pronounce the L however I do not say “pom” and “com” for palm and calm but rather “paum” and “caum”
I’ve rarely or never pronounced “salve”, so I’m not positive how I do or would pronounce it. I have certainly never said or thought the phrase “salve (ones) conscience”.
Interesting. I also do not have the cot/caught merger (although I do have Mary/marry/merry; those are all the same for me). But for me “balm”, “calm” and “palm” are pronunced with the “cot” vowel, not the “caught” vowel.
I have literally never heard or read this phrase ever in my life.
Sounds like some religious thing.
To be honest, it’s not one I’m immediately familiar with, either. “Ease your conscience,” sure. Maybe even “assuage your conscience.” That said, I may well have heard it somewhere and just figured out from context its meaning, and it just never stuck out to me, but it’s not a phrase I would ever use myself.