Same here. I think it’s more a voiced alveolar flap (like the way many or most Americans say “butter” or “metal,” with a d-like sound in it), but it’s definitely not a vanilla “t”-sound unless I am deliberately enunciating it.
At first I thought you were nuts, but I realized that the position of the tongue for the T/D sound (dental flap) is very similar to the position for the N sound. Other people could be pronouncing it your way all the time, and we might not hear it.
AFAIK, “t/d” is usually aleovelar in English (a dental variant does occur in some dialects like parts of Ireland and India), and a stop consonant, not a flap (except in intervocalic positions in American English, like that above-mentioned “better” and “metal.”)
No, but I have a hard type typing “ratio” without completing to to “ration.” It’s not autocorrect doing it; I compulsively type “ration” when I want to type “ratio.”
I have the same issue trying to type “probable.” Invariably, it seems to end up as “probably.” It’s some weird muscle memory thing.
You’re right, I should have said alveolar. But isn’t it a flap intthe word “united”? I think you’d have to really overpronounce to make it a stop.
Which is exactly why I asked for a recording. (And subscribed to this thread.)
It’s also possible the other way–that you hear an N because that’s where your tongue is, but no N sound actually comes out.
Please, someone who says U-nine-ted or U-nine-ed or similar, record yourself. Or those who have heard it, see if you can find a recording.
Yes, at least how I pronounce it. (And noted in my first post in this thread.)
Definitely not a California pronunciation. That would be united???
OMG, like, totally?
I’ve not heard unineted before. I’ve heard certain drawls that it would not surprise me to hear u-nine-ed (more like u-nahn-ed) from, but that’s just a matter of going nasal at the T. Basic elocution can correct that. But it would seem wheird to do double service by pronouncing the T as “n” and “t” (or even “d”).
Same here when I’m in casual conversation. In a more formal setting, I’ll try to enunciate the T better.
I just made a recording, Big T. What’s the best way to make it available here?
Tried to add this to my previous post, waited to long for an edit, but: I also remembered an “audio pronunciation dictionary” site from my bookmarks, which I found and looked up the word “united” so you can also hear some other people pronouncing it at that site, here. Of those 5 samples, to my ear the 4th one, by “rdbedsole”, sounds sort of like how I hear myself say it. With the others I seem to detect more of a T sound where I hear myself (and rdbedsole) say N.
I like using https://infotomb.com . It has no progress bar when uploading, but it’s a nice free host that doesn’t require sign up. And if you save as MP3 or OGG, it will include a player on the share page.
I only hear [juˈnaɪɾɪd], or yoo-NYE-ɾihd, where ɾ is the alveolar flap, kinda like a really soft D. I don’t hear any nasalization, which would be necessary for an N.
I guess you could also upload your clip of saying united to that website, if it’s different from the others.
Without a clip, I’d guess you use [ɾ̃], a nasalized alveolar flap, like how people pronounce “twenty” and it sounds almost but not quite like “twenny”–having a really short N. (Yes, some accents do actually say “twenny.” I’m talking about American accents that don’t.)
Thanks, I just uploaded my clip here.
I also read your following comment, about the clips at the Forvo site. (I didn’t want to bother signing up in order to upload my own there.) You mention not hearing “nasalization” that would lend more to an N sound. I think that’s what I hear in my own. Feel free to let me know if you agree or not!
Yeah, your clip definitely sounds like “u-nine-ed” vs the Forvo links. There’s definitely some sort of nasalization going on there, and it sounds unusual to my ears and the dialects I’m used to, but it’s possible I’ve heard it before in spontaneous speech and just auto-corrected to “united.”
That is interesting. That is definitely u-nine-ed. But it’s so clearly u-nine-ed that I wonder if we’re running into that phenomenon where you overdo things when thinking about it. It happens all the time.
I should have thought of this earlier. Can you try catching yourself saying things that just happen to have united in them?
I ask because I think that you are so clearly saying you-nine-ed that I think someone would have noticed–unless everyone you’ve ever spoken to also says it that way.
Interesting thoughts. Regarding the last part, I’m not sure how often I ever have occasion to say the word in a context so conspicuous that someone might’ve pointed it out, but I’m thinking it’s pretty much never. I say it when doing the Pledge of Allegiance, which is very rarely as an adult and even then it’s when everyone else is saying it too, or when referencing ‘the United States’ in conversation. In those instances unless someone were prompted beforehand to listen for how it’s pronounced, do you think they’d notice? I’m thinking probably not.
However, to your other suggestion, agree that it’s possible I “overdid” it because of thinking about it so much for the clip. Short of recording myself all the time everywhere, I’m not sure how I’d go about “catching myself” saying the word when it’s not at the forefront of my mind! Especially since, as noted, in thinking about my daily speaking life I think I probably say the word very rarely. Thanks for giving a listen!