# Do you really need to obtain your child’s consent for literally everything? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 12, 2018, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027 "2018-05-12T02:35:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Warm\_blood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@Warm\_blood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Warm_blood)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/1 "2018-05-12T02:35:26Z")
[Parents should ask babies for consent before diaper changes, expert says — here’s what she meant](https://globalnews.ca/news/4202437/consent-changing-diapers/) > [@](#): > > When sexuality educator Deanne Carson went on Australian news network ABC to talk about consent, her analogy completely took a turn. > > To understand and teach children why consent matters, Carson told the broadcaster that parents, for example, should ask their babies for consent before changing their diapers. > > “‘ **I’m going to change your nappy now, is this OK?’ Of course, the baby isn’t going to respond … but if you leave a space and wait for body language and wait to make eye contact then you’re letting that child know that their response matters** ,” she told ABC. The story above is making the rounds on social media due to how absurd the lady’s advice sounds. I’m all for teaching children about bodily autonomy, consent and a mutual respect for personal boundaries as soon as they are old enough to grasp such concepts. But this particular example is taking things a bit too far. Pre-lingual infants have no concept of consent. Diaper-changing is a non-negotiable aspect of adequate childcare. Why the hell do you need to “wait” for your baby to give you the proverbial thumbs up on changing them? What happens if they fuss or cry instead of responding positively, do you hold off on the diaper change until they’re in a good mood? Does this notion extend to vaccinations, medical checkups and other unpleasant but necessary things children must go through for their own good? As usual, this is yet another instance in which fringe lunatics take a good and noble idea and turn it into something utterly ridiculous. And said fringe lunatics are given way more attention than they deserve. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/2 "2018-05-12T04:24:01Z")
So, what’s the option if the baby indicates it doesn’t want its diaper changed? Let it stew in its own fecal material? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/3 "2018-05-12T04:49:39Z")
Setting aside the preposterous idea of doing this with a baby, you surely do not teach someone about consent by going through a sham consent procedure when no real choice is being offered. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/4 "2018-05-12T05:44:56Z")
While Ms Pink Hair undoubtedly has never undertaken a deep thought in her life, lots of stuff sounds profound in your mind and very silly on your lips. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/5 "2018-05-12T06:26:15Z")
And the media again has totally misrepresented the message. Way to get ratings and likes on facey. 😃 It’s not about obtaining ‘consent’. It’s about preparing your kidlet from an early age to be aware that ‘consent’ is essential later on in their lives. Of course it’s not practicable when you are changing their nappies…but it gets the kids aware for down the track. Way to misread the essential lesson OP. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/6 "2018-05-12T06:36:35Z")
I read to my kids in utero. I am certain they didn’t acknowledge it, but it sets a precedent. Of course a newborn cannot consent to a diaper change but you set up respect down the line. I knocked on the door to my kids bedroom everytime I entered to teach them to respect everyone’s privacy. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/7 "2018-05-12T07:43:21Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > And the media again has totally misrepresented the message. Way to get ratings and likes on facey. 😃 > > It’s not about obtaining ‘consent’. It’s about preparing your kidlet from an early age to be aware that ‘consent’ is essential later on in their lives. Of course it’s not practicable when you are changing their nappies…but it gets the kids aware for down the track. > > Way to misread the essential lesson OP. ☹ It’s still dumb. Especially since you’re going to change the kid’s diaper anyways. (“Hey, I’m asking for your consent to change your diaper, but I’ll do it no matter what”) And since most babies cry when they need their diapers changed, I’d say they’ve already given consent in advance, wouldn’t you? Kind of like, “Hey Mom, get this bag of shit off me now!” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/8 "2018-05-12T07:50:42Z")
Dunno about getting permission, exactly, but kids are never too young to be treated with respect. I work in childcare, and some daycares do have a policy of getting consent from the child for nappy changes. It’s good practice for your behaviour management skills. Babies are not that hard but a 2 yr old who doesn’t wanna can be challenging. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/9 "2018-05-12T10:42:00Z")
Asking a baby to change his diaper is sorta like when the wife asks me if I want to clean out the garage today. In other words, it’s gonna happen. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/10 "2018-05-12T11:35:30Z")
For some reason the idea that people whom you have power over should be treated as having autonomy, and trying to respect their preferences, seems just tooooo complicated for men – almost exclusively men – to grasp. There’s this automatic resistance I see over and over and over. Give us a rule that always applies! Show us the logical rational reason why we should do it, if you can. What about this exception? See, that proves we shouldn’t even bother! Fuck this shit! I talk to bees when I coax them on to a piece of paper to take a ride to an open window. Easy does it buddy, you’ll be out soon. You know who also benefits from talking to babies while they’re being changed? The changer. Because empathy. Empathy. That is the thing you are avoiding. That is the thing that you would be modeling for your child. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/11 "2018-05-12T11:57:30Z")
There’s a difference between being nice to someone while you do something to them that they may not like and that they have no choice over, e.g., changing a nappy, and pretending that you’re teaching consent. I don’t think it is a good idea to introduce the concept of consent when a lack of consent will result in the same outcome. At best, if they’re actually absorbing anything, they might learn that consent is useless because stuff’s gonna happen anyway. If you’re going to teach about choices and consent, do it when they have some language skills and do it with situations where their consent, or lack of, can make a real difference. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/12 "2018-05-12T12:30:20Z")
I will remember this when dating. Eye contact and body language are an acceptable substitute for affirmative verbal consent. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/13 "2018-05-12T12:32:44Z")
This is something that drives me bananas when I hear it. I frequently hear parents say things like, “We don’t do that, OK?” and variations. This is, to my mind, wrong. It changes the power dynamic in the relationship enormously. Suddenly it’s not the parent in charge. By asking permission/consent the parent is ceding the authority in the relationship to the child. And, without a doubt, the person in the relationship with the least amount of competence to be in charge is the child. I once had a convenience store clerk laugh at me. One of my kids came up and ask - while I was paying - if they could have a candy bar. I simply said, ‘no’ and went back to punching in my PIN. When he laughed I made some sort of inquisitive sound and he said something like, ‘no one just says no like that’. Christ, are these people parents or roommates to their little ones? By asking consent/permission they’re actively abrogating their responsibilities as parents to provide leadership and guidance and to instruct their children in limits and boundaries. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/14 "2018-05-12T13:05:32Z")
Christ, if elementary teachers don’t have enough problems already being underpaid now we’re going to feed them a generation of kids whom they’re expected to ask their permission to run a classroom? “We’re going to take a test now, is that okay with everyone?” “Fire drill, is everyone okay with going outside?” “Johnny, I don’t want to step on your first amendment rights and all but would it be alright if you stopped talking to Suzy so I could teach some math here? I’ve already got permission from the other 19 kids so we’re just waiting on you now.” ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/15 "2018-05-12T14:08:51Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > For some reason the idea that people whom you have power over should be treated as having autonomy, and trying to respect their preferences, seems just tooooo complicated for men – almost exclusively men – to grasp. There’s this automatic resistance I see over and over and over. Give us a rule that always applies! Show us the logical rational reason why we should do it, if you can. What about this exception? See, that proves we shouldn’t even bother! Fuck this shit! > > I talk to bees when I coax them on to a piece of paper to take a ride to an open window. Easy does it buddy, you’ll be out soon. > > You know who also benefits from talking to babies while they’re being changed? The changer. Because empathy. > > Empathy. That is the thing you are avoiding. That is the thing that you would be modeling for your child. So basically, you’re doing that for your own sake. 'cos I don’t think bees understand English. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/16 "2018-05-12T14:27:02Z")
**Ulfrienda** is right. Also, a bunch of other posts in this thread are just jerkish. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/17 "2018-05-12T14:28:24Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > So basically, you’re doing that for your own sake. 'cos I don’t think bees understand English. Well, that’s the buzz around here, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/18 "2018-05-12T15:12:59Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > This is something that drives me bananas when I hear it. > > I frequently hear parents say things like, “We don’t do that, OK?” and variations. > > This is, to my mind, wrong. It changes the power dynamic in the relationship enormously. Suddenly it’s not the parent in charge. By asking permission/consent the parent is ceding the authority in the relationship to the child. And, without a doubt, the person in the relationship with the least amount of competence to be in charge is the child. > > I once had a convenience store clerk laugh at me. One of my kids came up and ask - while I was paying - if they could have a candy bar. I simply said, ‘no’ and went back to punching in my PIN. When he laughed I made some sort of inquisitive sound and he said something like, ‘no one just says no like that’. > > Christ, are these people parents or roommates to their little ones? By asking consent/permission they’re actively abrogating their responsibilities as parents to provide leadership and guidance and to instruct their children in limits and boundaries. Sure, the parent is in charge but a good parent teaches their kids about choice. When you say “would you like to wear the green shirt or the blue shirt” you aren’t putting the kids in charge, you’re just teaching them that they have some say in their own lives. I can see both sides in this debate but I think it comes down to not teaching non-verbal infants consent but you’re teaching them about the _concept_ of consent. Ultimately it’s just lip-service because whether they like it or not, they are getting their diaper changed but at the same time planting the idea of consent. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/19 "2018-05-12T15:34:43Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Christ, if elementary teachers don’t have enough problems already being underpaid now we’re going to feed them a generation of kids whom they’re expected to ask their permission to run a classroom? > “We’re going to take a test now, is that okay with everyone?” > “Fire drill, is everyone okay with going outside?” > “Johnny, I don’t want to step on your first amendment rights and all but would it be alright if you stopped talking to Suzy so I could teach some math here? I’ve already got permission from the other 19 kids so we’re just waiting on you now.” What does any of that have to do with body autonomy and consent before touching? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027/20 "2018-05-12T15:41:53Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > Ultimately it’s just lip-service because whether they like it or not, they are getting their diaper changed but at the same time planting the idea of consent. how so, when you’re dealing with an infant? again, I think this is mostly about the speaker doing something to feel better about themselves rather than any specious “teaching” to a non-verbal infant. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-really-need-to-obtain-your-child-s-consent-for-literally-everything/814027.md?page=2)