# Do you say cal/que/late or cal/kuh/late? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 5, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889 "2011-05-05T22:13:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![EdwardLost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@EdwardLost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwardLost)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/1 "2011-05-05T22:13:36Z")
Somehow I went most of my life not noticing that some people use a short u or schwa where I would pronounce a long u (dipthongy, or like in the Greek letter “mu”). I first noticed it in my California-raised wife, then begin hearing it from other people. I’m not consistently observant enough to tell if this is a mark of certain dialects or if it’s more idiosyncratic. Anyone have any dope or observations on this? A few example words off the top of my head: calculate, figure, fury, singular. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/2 "2011-05-05T22:16:13Z")
I say KAL-kyuh-late, so between your two versions. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/3 "2011-05-05T22:19:04Z")
> [@EdwardLost](#): > > Somehow I went most of my life not noticing that some people use a short u or schwa where I would pronounce a long u (dipthongy, or like in the Greek letter “mu”). I first noticed it in my California-raised wife, then begin hearing it from other people. I’m not consistently observant enough to tell if this is a mark of certain dialects or if it’s more idiosyncratic. > > Anyone have any dope or observations on this? > > A few example words off the top of my head: calculate, figure, fury, singular. I pronouce all of those with the /j/ before the second vowel sound. Incidentally, what you are referring to is called [yod-dropping](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_English_consonant_clusters#Yod-dropping). ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/4 "2011-05-05T22:19:22Z")
There are people who pronounce “fury” like “foory”? I have the /j/ always in “fury”, and in at least careful pronunciation of “calculate” and “singular”, though it doesn’t sound unreasonable to hypothesize that I may sometimes drop it from those last two words nonetheless. However, I never pronounce a /j/ in “figure” (a la the British style, presumably the result of my parents’ influence). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/5 "2011-05-05T22:22:59Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I say KAL-kyuh-late, so between your two versions. Same. It’s an unstressed back vowel. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_of_Lucan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/6 "2011-05-05T22:37:11Z")
That’s what I’d say too. I would feel that kal-kul-ate sounds slightly odd - American to my ear, like “nucular” for nuclear. I guess there is room to nitpick based on the etymology. It comes from the Latin word calculus, which would be pronounced kal-kull-us or kal-kool-ooss. So Kal-kul-ate or kal-kool-ate are pronunciations linked to its roots. I don’t think that is persuasive. We have many Latin-based words whose pronunciations are no longer tied to the roots. If we were so strict, Julius Caesar would be pronounced Yool-yooss Kye-zar. The “y” sound |j| is now well established in most words like “tube” and “mule”. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/7 "2011-05-05T22:44:37Z")
I’m with the long u group, with the exception of “figure” which usually ends up “figyur” unless I’m really trying to enunciate. I think the leading g is what does it - it’s harder to get to a long u after that g, and there just isn’t enough time there to make it worth it unless I’m really trying to be clear and speak slowly. ---
**Author:** ![EdwardLost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@EdwardLost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwardLost)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/8 "2011-05-05T23:11:28Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > There are people who pronounce “fury” like “foory”? That one is probably just my wife. It makes her “furry-ous” when I leave the toilet seat up. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/9 "2011-05-05T23:16:14Z")
For the record, both [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/calculate) and [Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/calculate) only give the KAL-kyuh-late pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/10 "2011-05-05T23:34:15Z")
The idiosyncratic terminology in this thread is confusing so let’s standardize: First of all, there’s the question of whether one pronounces a “y” sound (denoted /j/, in the International Phonetic Alphabet) prior to whatever “u” vowel one makes in these words; consider the difference between “feud” and “food”. Not pronouncing the "y’ sound is called yod-dropping; we may as well call pronouncing the “y” sound yod-pronouncing. Orthogonal to that is the question of which “u” vowel one then uses: the /ʊ/ of f **oo** t, the /u/ of f **oo** d, or the reduced vowel schwa /ə/ of anat **o** my. (One might want to distinguish between different reduced vowels, and talk of "schwu"s and such, but let’s not…) I think the OP’s question was actually the first of these, as to whether people yod-drop or yod-pronounce. It’s not clear to me that all the replies are targetting this first question, though. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/11 "2011-05-06T00:22:41Z")
calc u late ---
**Author:** ![EdwardLost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@EdwardLost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwardLost)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/12 "2011-05-06T00:40:33Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Incidentally, what you are referring to is called [yod-dropping](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_English_consonant_clusters#Yod-dropping). Interesting. I’m not sure if this is exactly what I’ve been hearing. (I don’t know the phonetic alphabet so I can’t perfectly follow it.) Sounds like Yod-dropping is like “beaut” into “boot”, which would turn calculate from cal-que-late into cal-coo-late and figure into figoor. I’m hearing more like cal-cull-ate and figger. ---
**Author:** ![EdwardLost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@EdwardLost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwardLost)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/13 "2011-05-06T00:58:26Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > The idiosyncratic terminology in this thread is confusing so let’s standardize: > > First of all, there’s the question of whether one pronounces a “y” sound (denoted /j/, in the International Phonetic Alphabet) prior to whatever “u” vowel one makes in these words; consider the difference between “feud” and “food”. Not pronouncing the "y’ sound is called yod-dropping; we may as well call pronouncing the “y” sound yod-pronouncing. > > Orthogonal to that is the question of which “u” vowel one then uses: the /ʊ/ of f **oo** t, the /u/ of f **oo** d, or the reduced vowel schwa /ə/ of anat **o** my. (One might want to distinguish between different reduced vowels, and talk of "schwu"s and such, but let’s not…) > > I think the OP’s question was actually the first of these, as to whether people yod-drop or yod-pronounce. It’s not clear to me that all the replies are targetting this first question, though. Maybe what I’m noticing is both: “y” loss and schwa-ification. The thing that prompted me to post is that I heard Terry Gross on Fresh Air review the book _A Singular Woman_ and it sounded like _A Single-er Woman_. I would have said “sing-gyewler” where she said “sing-guller”. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/14 "2011-05-06T01:16:33Z")
Nu- cuh - lar. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/15 "2011-05-06T02:28:57Z")
> [@EdwardLost](#): > > A few example words off the top of my head: calculate, figure, fury, singular. Cal-cue-late fig-yer fuhr-ee sin-gu(e?)-ler ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/16 "2011-05-06T02:36:25Z")
I can’t spell it phonetically, but the Scottish way of saying it is the best. ---
**Author:** ![Jormungandr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@Jormungandr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jormungandr)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/17 "2011-05-06T04:09:55Z")
Let me see… It seems neither For me, it’s kalc/uh/late I somehow sneak that “c.” I’m not good at splitting words into syllables as I don’t learn pronunciation that way (I have to hear the word). But, by saying it slowly, the “kalc” is noticeable. I try your two variations and they seem unnatural to me when I had someone else pronounce them and I tried them. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/18 "2011-05-06T06:59:05Z")
> [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](#): > > The “y” sound |j| is now well established in most words like “tube” and “mule”. For a lot of words, that depends on which side of the Atlantic you are on. Many (most?) Americans say “nooz” where we would say “nyooz”. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_of_Lucan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/19 "2011-05-06T08:08:50Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > For a lot of words, that depends on which side of the Atlantic you are on. Many (most?) Americans say “nooz” where we would say “nyooz”. I agree about that one. Oddly, my father was born in Galway and lived in Ireland all his life - apart from vacations. He always used the American pronunciation “nooz”. It struck me as strange when I was young - which shows how standard “nyooz” is for us. He was bilingual, speaking a lot of Irish as a child, and I assumed he ws unconsciously influenced by the pronunciation of the Irish word “nua” (new). I have been told that a lot of American pronunciations are the result of heavy German and Scandinavian immigration. I can’t comment on the accuracy of that. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889/20 "2011-05-06T09:06:18Z")
Americans tend to yod-drop after alveolar consonants (/t/, /d/, /n/) whereas Britons typically don’t. Thus, for “tube”, Americans typically yod-drop while Britons typically yod-pronounce. However, both Americans and Britons yod-pronounce in “mule”, as /m/ is not an alveolar consonant. [This American usually yod-drops after /d/ and /t/ (in stressed syllables; yod-coalescence instead often occurs in unstressed syllables), but yod-pronounces in many words after /n/; again, presumably the idiosyncratic result of parental influence] [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-cal-que-late-or-cal-kuh-late/580889.md?page=2)