# Do you say "second grade" or "the second grade"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 23, 2008, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780 "2008-09-23T02:13:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hedda\_Rosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hedda_rosa/32/1204_2.png) [@Hedda\_Rosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hedda_Rosa)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/1 "2008-09-23T02:13:48Z")
I was just writing to a friend and talking about my kid. At first I said “she’s in second grade” but I went back and edited it to say “she’s in the second grade” They both look fine…but is one more correct than the other? What do you say? Maybe it is a regionalism…I’m in CA. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/2 "2008-09-23T02:15:45Z")
I say both, but I normally drop the definite article. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/3 "2008-09-23T02:16:40Z")
I say “grade two”, but I’m a Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/4 "2008-09-23T02:16:52Z")
I’d say “she’s in second class”. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/5 "2008-09-23T02:22:55Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > I say “grade two”, but I’m a Canadian. Ditto. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/6 "2008-09-23T02:27:20Z")
I’m always “The second grade.” I’m in Arizona, must be the same region. ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/7 "2008-09-23T04:52:04Z")
I’d say “in second grade,” definitely. I’m from the New York City area. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/8 "2008-09-23T04:54:56Z")
I say, “grade two”. ---
**Author:** ![rinni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f6c823/32.png) [@rinni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rinni)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/9 "2008-09-23T05:24:29Z")
Another “grade two”-er up in here. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/10 "2008-09-23T05:52:38Z")
I’d say either one, and I wouldn’t notice which I was using. California. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/11 "2008-09-23T05:56:11Z")
Either way seems fine to me, except that there is probably some subtle difference I can’t put my finger on at the moment. Or putting it another way, I would be more likely to say “in the second grade”, but still, “in second grade” isn’t going to raise my innate Chomskyan grammatical hackles either. To shed some light on this, I’ve always been interested in little grammatical questions of this type, and it so happens that I’ve spent much of my working life around Oracle databases. I’ve noticed that when we talk about database tables, the word “the” is omitted, or not, depending on the structure of the statement. One could say that they have “inserted some records into CUSTOMER\_TRANSACTIONS”, or one could say they have "inserted some records into **the** CUSTOMER\_TRANSACTIONS **table**. But if one says “inserted some records into CUSTOMER\_TRANSACTIONS table”, then you know that the speaker is not a native speaker of English. For me, I think the “in second grade”/“in the second grade” dichotomy may be similar, but, as I said, I can’t nail it down. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/12 "2008-09-23T06:31:18Z")
I’d call it high school. -Alabama ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/13 "2008-09-23T06:37:50Z")
Fourthing or nthing or whatever the ‘grade two’. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/14 "2008-09-23T07:00:05Z")
I’d say, “In second grade.” Putting a “the” in there feels…fussy. “in\_\_” is an oddball constuction in regards to the article, though, isn’t it? We do things while “in college”, “in high school” or even “in jail,” yet one only does things while “in **the** Navy,” “in **the** hospital,” (US usage) or “in **the** NFL.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Buttons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@Mr\_Buttons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Buttons)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/15 "2008-09-23T07:18:56Z")
If before 6th grade, I’d say (They’re in the (1-5) grade). After sixth grade , I’d drop the “the” part of that. ie. They’re in sixth grade, instead of ‘they’re in **the** sixth grade’ There’s a distinct difference between elementary school and intermediate school. I feel language should acknowledge that. ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/16 "2008-09-23T07:34:23Z")
No definite article for any grade, but grade numbers only up through junior high. So, “in second grade”, but “she’s a sophomore” when she eventually gets there. I never heard the article used until recently, and then usually on TV, so it probably is a regional thing. I stand _in_ line, too. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/17 "2008-09-23T07:39:17Z")
> [@thirdwarning](#): > > I stand _in_ line, too. Speaking of, standing _on_ line is something I’ve only heard in NYC. Are there other parts of the country where this is the standard phrasing? ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/18 "2008-09-23T08:00:24Z")
This seems a bit like one of the linguistic splits we have between north CA and south CA… Well, the first one is ‘hella’. But the other one is how we refer to numbered freeways. A Northerner might take 580, but a Southerner will _always_ take **the** 405. (And judging from the traffic, I sometimes think all of them do.) [Wiki article on the phenomenon.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_English#Freeway_nomenclature) ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/19 "2008-09-23T08:06:12Z")
> [@thirdwarning](#): > > No definite article for any grade, but grade numbers only up through junior high. So, “in second grade”, but “she’s a sophomore” when she eventually gets there. And we in Ontario don’t use ‘sophomore’. I couldn’t tell you offhand what grade that is without checking a dictionary. We say ‘grade nine’ through ‘grade thirteen’ for high-school students. (Yes, I know, grade 13 was abolished.) ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780/20 "2008-09-23T08:45:45Z")
Usually just “second grade” but occasionally the flow of the sentence will have me add a ‘the’. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-second-grade-or-the-second-grade/464780.md?page=2)