# Do you say "Shtreet" instead of "Street"? Is this a regional variation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 18, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389 "2010-01-18T03:29:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/21 "2010-01-18T22:10:28Z")
In Hawaiian creole dialect (pidgin) it happens, but there are so many other odd things about pidgin that it’s almost not worth noticing. ---
**Author:** ![tattman40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/db5fbb/32.png) [@tattman40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tattman40)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/22 "2010-01-19T01:58:28Z")
How about ten bucks? Who says “tem bucks”? Or english muffin I end up saying “engli shmuffin” ---
**Author:** ![T.Slothrop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3e96dc/32.png) [@T.Slothrop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.Slothrop)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/23 "2010-01-19T04:43:23Z")
Originally posted by capybara "In Hawaiian creole dialect (pidgin) it happens, but there are so many other odd things about pidgin that it’s almost not worth noticing. " Folks from Hawaii who no longer speak pidgin or don’t speak it in official situations usually still pronounce street or stream as shtreet or shtream. Until I read this thread I didn’t know there were other places where it was pronounced this way. Jon ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/24 "2010-01-19T07:08:12Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > How do you pronounce “str”, as in “street” or “destroyed”? Do you pronounce it “ **shtr** ” instead of “str”? If so, where are you from? It is common in India for someone who did not grow up speaking English to pronounce it as “shtreet”. Those who grew up speaking English pronounce it as “street”. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/25 "2010-01-20T20:46:29Z")
White female mid-20s middle-class Milwaukeean, and I say _schreet_. (Also, as people have observed above, _schring_, _chree_, and _akchual_. And \*drink \*is _jrink_.) Perfectly normal dialectical variation. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/26 "2010-01-20T20:51:56Z")
I went through 12 years of compulsory education with a girl whose last name was _Streeter_ and who pronounced it _Shtreeter_. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/27 "2010-01-20T22:26:45Z")
I had never noticed anyone (except Sean Connery I guess) who says shtreet, and I certainly don’t. However, I thought that _everyone_ pronounces “train” and “tree” as chrain and chree. Are there people who actually say it without the ch- sound (as part of their dialect and not an affectation)? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/28 "2010-01-21T04:52:54Z")
It seems very odd to me to change the pronunciation of a cluster of letters to something not at all represented by those letters. I realize that no accent or dialect is wrong, but to me, it’s like pronouncing the word “dog” as “log”. But as I posted in the OP, I grew up thinking it was a speech impediment, like me not being able to roll my r’s. I had a friend in grade school who literally could not pronounce str, so she used shr instead. I guess I am being enlightened. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/29 "2010-01-21T04:54:56Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I had never noticed anyone (except Sean Connery I guess) who says shtreet, and I certainly don’t. > > However, I thought that _everyone_ pronounces “train” and “tree” as chrain and chree. Are there people who actually say it without the ch- sound (as part of their dialect and not an affectation)? Certainly. I don’t think I know anyone who doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/30 "2010-01-21T09:42:52Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > However, I thought that _everyone_ pronounces “train” and “tree” as chrain and chree. Are there people who actually say it without the ch- sound (as part of their dialect and not an affectation)? > [@needscoffee](#): > > Certainly. I don’t think I know anyone who doesn’t. Are you guys serious? I thought everyone says “train” and “tree” without any “ch” in it, just the “tr” sound. I say “train” and “tree” without any “ch”, and so do at least a billion Indians. I’m going to ask people tomorrow to pronounce “train” and “tree” for me. If you want to learn something truly fascinating, check out this post I made sometime last month: > [@Come Mister Tallyban tally me banana](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/come-mister-tallyban-tally-me-banana/519675/10): > > Obama pronounces Pakistan as the locals do. Taliban, locally, is pronounced taa-li-baan, with a soft T sound that no American I know seems to be able to differentiate from a hard T sound. It’s a sound that I think doesn’t exist in the English language, or at least I’m unable to find a word that uses it, to be able to explain the difference to my friends. > > The closest I can come to an explanation is this: > > Say tree. Now say three. See where your tongue is when you say three? It’s not the same place as tree, right? Now say T with your tongue at the the position where you start the word three. That’s a soft T sound. Am I making any sense? > > Next time you meet a South Asian friend, ask them to pronounce a native language word that uses a soft T and a hard T, and see if you can make out the difference. Chances are, you can’t. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/31 "2010-01-21T10:04:22Z")
> [@xash](#): > > Are you guys serious? I thought everyone says “train” and “tree” without any “ch” in it, just the “tr” sound. I say “train” and “tree” without any “ch”, and so do at least a billion Indians. I’m going to ask people tomorrow to pronounce “train” and “tree” for me. I was saying the same thing you are. I’ve not heard it pronounced with the “ch”. ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/32 "2010-01-21T10:12:19Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I was saying the same thing you are. I’ve not heard it pronounced with the “ch”. I guess the double negatchive tchripped one of us up. Tchanks for the clarificatchion 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/33 "2010-01-21T16:02:28Z")
For anybody who’s really baffled by the chrain/chree thing: these are approximations. When I say tree, it doesn’t actually sound like chree; but the initial consonant cluster gets a lot more aspirated that a straight-up tr. > [@needscoffee](#): > > It seems very odd to me to change the pronunciation of a cluster of letters to something not at all represented by those letters. Go take a course in linguistics. Written language is an artificial, learned construct. Spoken language preceeds written language and determines its forms. Pronunciation drives spelling, not the other way around. The problem is that it’s much easier to set and maintain one standard in written langauge than in spoken language, and spoken language shifts much faster than written language does. > [@xash](#): > > Are you guys serious? I thought everyone says “train” and “tree” without any “ch” in it, just the “tr” sound. Really? So “train” sounds kind of like a single-syllable “terrain”? As for the “different kinds of t’s” discussion: I don’t know about modern Urdu, Hindi, Arabic, etc., but in Sanskrit, you have a lot of consonants that are distinguished between dental (pronounced with the tongue up against the teeth) and retroflex (pronounced with the tongue back past the alveolar ridge). In English, the same consonants are pronounced sort of in the middle, on the alveolar ridge. So a dental t would be the “hard t” and a retroflex t would be the “soft t.” ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/34 "2010-01-21T16:14:34Z")
FWIW, Howard Stern always pronounces "sphincter’ as “shfinkter”. ---
**Author:** ![My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/My_Darn_Snake_Legs)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/35 "2010-01-21T16:25:46Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Do you pronounce it “ **shtr** ” instead of “str”? If so, where are you from? Yep. I’m originally from a little town near Houston, TX. I don’t have any appreciable accent, though. I attribute it to spending time in lots of different regions of the country when I was growing up. > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > For anybody who’s really baffled by the chrain/chree thing: these are approximations. When I say tree, it doesn’t actually sound like chree; but the initial consonant cluster gets a lot more aspirated that a straight-up tr. I do this, as well. I never thought about it, but I think it would sound odd to really \*hit \*that “T” sound at the beginning. I’m going to make my students say tree today at the beginning of class. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/36 "2010-01-21T16:53:16Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Really? So “train” sounds kind of like a single-syllable “terrain”? Yeah, when I pronounce “train” and “chrain,” I don’t think there’s much of a difference in the sound, although it seems the “tr” has lighter “ch” sound than “chrain.” The position of my tongue for the “r” doesn’t allow any sort of smooth way to clearly enunciate both “t” and “r” and they blend into something like “chr.” In other languages, with trilled or flap "r"s (like Polish and Hungarian), I make a definite distinction between “tr” and “chr”-type sounds. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/37 "2010-01-21T17:03:49Z")
Found an article [here on Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=twC-H4a8VcYC&pg=PA82&lpg=PA82&dq=%22tr+cluster%22+english&source=bl&ots=CkASGkvts9&sig=_fBs2tH6BPG014uk9EPKtCAuDEM&hl=en&ei=rodYS7LYI4WGNue6mKsH&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBUQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=%22tr%20cluster%22%20english&f=false) explaining the “tr-” situation. Also, listen to the pronunciation of “train” on [Merriam Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/train)’s site. That sounds pretty much exactly like “chrain” to me. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/38 "2010-01-21T17:55:08Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Also, listen to the pronunciation of “train” on [Merriam Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/train)’s site. That sounds pretty much exactly like “chrain” to me. Yup, that sounds like my “train.” ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/39 "2010-01-21T18:30:56Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > […]Go take a course in linguistics.[…] Already have. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389/40 "2010-01-21T18:34:43Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > For anybody who’s really baffled by the chrain/chree thing: these are approximations. When I say tree, it doesn’t actually sound like chree; but the initial consonant cluster gets a lot more aspirated that a straight-up tr. […] Okay, after saying “tree” and “train” all morning, I am noticing this. Gotta get someone near me to say it so I can listen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-say-shtreet-instead-of-street-is-this-a-regional-variation/525389.md?page=3)