# Do you/should you turn the map upside down when heading south? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 25, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555 "2011-09-25T15:00:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/21 "2011-09-26T00:49:49Z")
> [@TheChileanBlob](#): > > I’m one of those people who can’t turn things around in my head, but I also took orienteering in Girl Scouts and learned to turn the map to line up with the direction you’re facing. This, sort of. Though my dad took me along when he took out my brothers boy sprout troop to teach orienteering. I don’t do it when driving in cars, but I do if I am slogging around on foot in the countryside somewhere. I am also one of the stranger types that actually has a compass and knows how to orienteer. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/22 "2011-09-26T04:42:47Z")
North Up always. Except for one crappy iPhone GPS app that has no North Up mode. Bastards! ---
**Author:** ![Sudden\_Kestrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Sudden\_Kestrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sudden_Kestrel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/23 "2011-09-26T07:34:47Z")
I’ve never even _considered_ turning the map. What a strange concept. Would you also turn a globe sideways when looking at something to the east of you? Fascinating! ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/24 "2011-09-26T07:41:14Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > I’ve heard people talk in scathing tones about “the sort of people who turn the map upside down” when travelling south - the implication being that they’re spatially unaware and can’t cope with reversing things mentally. It’s often said about women (not by me!) or the navigationally clueless. > > But when I learnt to map-read, one of the first things I was told was that you should “orientate your map” so that the direction you’re facing is “up” on the map. Seems like a perfectly sensible thing to do to make the map agree with your surroundings. > > What’s your opinion? Turn the map or not? All I know is that during marine field training US Marines are taught to orient the maps in the direction of travel. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/25 "2011-09-26T07:53:06Z")
I’m a forester and I don’t understand why you would orient the map to north. Any transfer of information between the map and the real world is thru your compass. North is pretty arbitrary if you have a good compass. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/26 "2011-09-26T08:09:54Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > All I know is that during marine field training US Marines are taught to orient the maps in the direction of travel. 😃 If the Marines still do this they need better compasses. ---
**Author:** ![Sudden\_Kestrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Sudden\_Kestrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sudden_Kestrel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/27 "2011-09-26T08:18:08Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > I’m a forester and I don’t understand why you would orient the map to north. Any transfer of information between the map and the real world is thru your compass. North is pretty arbitrary if you have a good compass. If I were using a compass and map and trying to navigate in a wilderness area I would use your method, but I can’t imagine doing that with a road map. With a standard road map or atlas, my brain just does the orienting on its own. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/28 "2011-09-26T08:27:36Z")
You’re right, that’s true, for a road map I picture my direction of travel and think in lefts and rights. ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/29 "2011-09-26T09:35:32Z")
Orienteering/hiking yes, road travel no. When orienteering I don’t care where North is, I care where the next waypoint is, and removing the step of “turn things around in your head” makes it simpler. In road travel, however, our atlas is too big to faff around with it a lot in the car. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/30 "2011-09-26T10:02:59Z")
> [@TheChileanBlob](#): > > … I also took orienteering in Girl Scouts and learned to turn the map to line up with the direction you’re facing. If the pros do it it’s good enough for me (although I usually don’t do it). My problem is more that certain towns, that I usually approach from North, are upside down in my mind. I was really lost in Tallinn last winter until I finally oriented the map the way I was looking. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/31 "2011-09-26T10:33:40Z")
For the big picture, like tracking our travel along an interstate, I see no reason to turn the map. But for close-in navigation, it’s a lot easier for me to keep left turns and right turns straight in my head if the map is aligned with my direction of travel. For some reason, sorting out left and right and knowing that \*this \*way is left and \*that \*way is right seems to elude me at critical moments. I know the difference, but when I need to say “Turn left here” I begin to doubt that I’m giving the right directions - did I say left when I meant right? Yeah, I have weird issues about some things. But as long as my map is oriented to my route, I can usually do fine. If I’m driving, I’m fine. Telling someone else, that’s where it can get interesting… ---
**Author:** ![drillrod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@drillrod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drillrod)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/32 "2011-09-26T12:08:09Z")
Army training states that orienting the map to the ground is one of the first steps of dismounted land navigation / orienteering. Frankly, it’s always irritated the piss out of me and I never do it. However, some people do seem to work better by doing it, so I will train that way if the individual needs it. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/33 "2011-09-26T12:20:36Z")
No. But then, I don’t tend to automatically associate up with forward on maps. Maybe I’m unusual in that. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/34 "2011-09-26T12:59:01Z")
If we are talking about on foot travel, then I orient my map and body in the direction of travel; it is how I was taught to do it in Boy Scouts and in later orienteering classes I took. If we are talking about travel in a vehicle, then no. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/35 "2011-09-26T14:41:48Z")
If I’m lost or confused I definitely will do it. I did it just this summer walking through a new city while on vacation. Otherwise, nah. I’m pretty awesome when it comes to directions. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/36 "2011-09-26T14:54:10Z")
I’m in GIS, so my life pretty much revolves around maps and mapping. I don’t turn it and have my GPS always orientated north up. For some reason I find the other way quite a bit more confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/37 "2011-09-26T15:05:28Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Hmm. The only one I’ve used extensively is the Google Maps one on my phone, and I can’t seem to find a way to have it show you the map with north always being up. There is a way to show the whole route as a north up map, but you can’t zoom in or out, so it’s not really a helpful map for turn by turn directions. All the other ones I’ve seen were in other people’s cars, so I never tried to change the settings. They all seemed to default to “current direction is up”. Every nav system I’ve ever owned defaulted to North at the top of the screen, including my Google Maps iPhone app. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/38 "2011-09-26T15:05:59Z")
I find map rotation far more confusing than leaving it oriented however it’s drawn (usually, North up). I have no issues with figuring out which way is left or right since those are all relative anyway. I also have a natural sense of direction but this is something that isn’t relative on a map, so it can quickly get confusing if I know I need to go, say, East but East isn’t easily identifiable on the map because it’s rotated in a way I don’t expect. Baiscally, I really don’t understand how it even makes sense to rotate it since it completely reverses the important relationships of leftness/rightness and cardinal directions. If I were to rotate a map, but my directions say “take I-95 North” I’d then have to rotate it back to normal to figure out which way on I-95 is North, then rotate it back to up is forward again. The real thing that I think is missing though is that there is no “mental rotation of the map” for me, and I imagine others like me, all it takes is intuitively understanding the relativeness of left-right. For instance, when I look at a clock, I don’t need to mentally rotate it to know which way is clockwise and which way is counter-clockwise. Take that same sort of relationship to a map and a clockwise turn is right and a counter-clockwise turn is left. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/39 "2011-09-26T16:09:13Z")
I rotate maps, and nothing, nothing pisses me off more than a game that has a poor map. One of the biggest reasons I could never play Fallout 2 is that awful, awful map. I am not very good at spatial orientaton. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555/40 "2011-09-26T16:42:07Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > IThe real thing that I think is missing though is that there is no “mental rotation of the map” for me, and I imagine others like me, all it takes is intuitively understanding the relativeness of left-right. I think this is probably it. I don’t have a strong grasp of left and right. I very often have to think about which side is “right” using thoughts like “Which hand do I write with? Oh, that one, that one’s the right.” When considering what is “clockwise” I have to bring up an image in my mind of a clock, and consider the direction of the hands, before being certain. If I’m under stress so my thoughts aren’t very focused and someone says “turn right!!” My brain can freeze and I’m just as likely to turn left. Oddly – or maybe not – I have exceptional “place memory” and navigational sense for places I have been before, even if it has been decades since I was there last. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-should-you-turn-the-map-upside-down-when-heading-south/597555.md?page=3)