# Do you stand during the Pledge of Allegiance? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 19, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165 "2015-10-19T19:54:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![chaika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chaika/32/405_2.png) [@chaika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaika)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/81 "2015-10-20T19:44:51Z")
Hmm, I can’t remember the last time the pledge of allegiance was recited in my presence. When I was a child, we said it in school every day (only during the time we lived in the US, naturally). But that stopped by 6th grade. So maybe when I was about 10 years old was the last time I actually said it. I always remember my mother telling me that I didn’t have to say the pledge if i didn’t want to. She told me about the Supreme Court case that decided the matter. I loved knowing that no one could force me to say those words, it gave me a feeling of real empowerment. Though I never actually refused to say the pledge as a child, I enjoyed knowing that it was my choice. If I were ever in a situation now where the pledge was recited, I wouldn’t stand and I certainly wouldn’t say those words. It has nothing to do with how I feel about this country. It’s the mechanical nature of it that I want nothing to do with, the sort of unthinking repetition of words that we learned before we had any idea what they meant. There is something quite creepy about little children pledging their allegiance to anything. And as an adult I don’t need some sort of bizarre public ritual to proclaim my commitment to anything. “I led the pigeons to the flag. . .” ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/82 "2015-10-20T19:48:14Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > ↑ ↑ ↑ Didn’t read this part did ya? > > Bawahahaha A non action is more important than an action. > > That is the extent of your willingness to help protect this place of freedom? :rolleyes: Why don’t you go and advocate and work to make sure that all of our soldiers get proper armor, proper care, and mental health care, even when they return? I am horrified every time I see a veteran begging. Why don’t you go and advocate to ensure that we don’t send our boys and girls to die in a dirty war somewhere they never signed up for? What does the pledge have to do with all this? If it comes to war between the US and India which side do you think I will choose? Do you think my saying the pledge every single day will ensure I choose the US? ---
**Author:** ![chaika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chaika/32/405_2.png) [@chaika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaika)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/83 "2015-10-20T19:53:16Z")
I guess Cochrane and I learned the same pledge. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/84 "2015-10-20T20:36:59Z")
I stand, put my hand over my heart, and say it. And I’m not particularly patriotic. It’s just a ritual that has no meaning. Outside of some military context, I can’t even figure out what it means to pledge allegiance to a country. Is it just me saying that I will follow its laws? Well, I will as far as I have to, and otherwise just do what’s right–if the laws are good, then that will coincide. My nation doesn’t have a set of beliefs for me to adhere to. That’s kinda the point. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/85 "2015-10-20T21:33:53Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > I don’t think so. But those on this thread have no intention of defending this country of freedom they abuse from enemies as they don’t believe in that, just taking the good stuff or just moving along to the next place that gives them stuff for free. I like to pretend the Federal taxes I pay go to things I believe in, like food for kids who don’t know where their next meal is coming from in this “greatest country in the world”, rather than for bullets and guns and armaments used to go to other countries and kill, not to defend this country on its ground. ---
**Author:** ![qualityleashdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/9f8e36/32.png) [@qualityleashdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qualityleashdog)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/86 "2015-10-20T21:49:34Z")
I’m a sub and they say it all the way into high school in my districts. I stand, face the flag but keep my mouth closed and hands down. As a sub, I run the show and the kids don’t care at all. Now what I’m waiting for is when I start my internship and I’m actually with other teachers or someone observing me. Then I might expect to be called out on it, and I’d have to cite that I am an atheist, and I don’t believe in making a daily fascist proclamation that I’m loyal to this country, especially by venerating an inanimate object. Plus, we already have a Supreme Court decision on this that was cited before. If they still don’t like it, I guess it could turn into a media stink. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/87 "2015-10-20T22:04:37Z")
It is scary that we (Americans) make our young school children recite the pledge when they are too young to understand what the hell they’re saying. “Pledge”? “Allegiance”? Tell me kiddos, what do those words/concepts even mean? (Billy, get yer finger out of yer nose!) But do you all have it memorized yet? Don’t worry, we’ll do this again tomorrow morning. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/88 "2015-10-20T22:40:56Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Time was, in the UK it was the custom to play the national anthem at the beginning or end of concerts and plays, or at the end of the evening’s performance in the cinema. . . . Ray Bradbury wrote a brilliant and hilarious send-up of that custom in his story “The Anthem Sprinters.” (In Googling for this, I discovered that it had been dramatized, and is available on YouTube. I haven’t watched it yet, but shall!) ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/89 "2015-10-20T23:01:06Z")
Fuck pledging allegiance to any organization that thinks I should be in prison for any of a number of victimless activities (that I haven’t been caught at yet 🙂 ). I do stand though, I guess I don’t want to draw attention to myself. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/90 "2015-10-21T00:59:26Z")
I haven’t said the Pledge of Allegiance since high school but I stood and said it then ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/91 "2015-10-21T01:44:43Z")
I don’t consider group rituals to be binding in any way, and I can’t recall ever thinking otherwise. PoE, prayers of any kind, national anthems, etc. All meaningless drivel as far as I’m concerned. Therefore, I have no problem with standing up and reciting it for politeness sake or to not make a scene. You can bet your ass that I’ll be doing Heil Hitlers if I inadvertently find myself in a group of Illinois Nazis. It’s someone else’s ritual, someone else’s belief, and someone else’s obligation. Not mine. In any case, I haven’t had to recite the PoE specifically since high school. And then only because I was a Boy Scout; doing the PoE in school ended after junior high. ---
**Author:** ![breezman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@breezman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/breezman)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/92 "2015-10-21T01:48:16Z")
I never say the pledge. When I was a kid, I stopped because I had/have religious objections to what seems like worshipping the flag. That was in the 80’s and I didn’t want to stand out, so when we’d say it I’d just leave out the words “I pledge.” Just in case no one has posted it already, the Whitest Kids You Know did a good sketch about the pledge. [- YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=618U-_8o31k) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/93 "2015-10-21T01:57:44Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Skelton’s explication is what led me to take a good long look at the PoA, and decide that if I wished to take its meaning seriously, I should stop reciting it. > > Pledging is a pretty solemn undertaking; it should not be done lightly. And if one is making a habit of it, one’s pledge isn’t really worth much. Exactly. When I was covering _West Virginia Board of Education v Barnette_ in my American Government classes, that was precisely how I responded when a student asked me why I didn’t recite it along with the class every Monday and Friday. I think (hope) I made a few of them think. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/94 "2015-10-21T02:00:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It is precisely because of my duty to this country that I refuse to say the unconstitutional portion of the Pledge. > > And I owe absolutely no duty nor honor to the flag. I owe it to the ideals the flag stands for, which are absolutely not the same thing. This. I’m 60ish and remember thinking the pledge was stupid by the time I reached 8th grade and we didn’t even say the “under God” thing at our Catholic school. And then I read Catch 22, heh. In other news I have retired friends who live in the Villages in FL who told me that they all stand and say the pledge, with hands over hearts, before every event/meeting. Yipes, no wonder Sarah Palin had her biggest crowds there. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/95 "2015-10-21T18:23:12Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Skelton’s explication is what led me to take a good long look at the PoA, and decide that if I wished to take its meaning seriously, I should stop reciting it. > > Pledging is a pretty solemn undertaking; it should not be done lightly. And if one is making a habit of it, one’s pledge isn’t really worth much. Which is why it seems crazy to me that the group most likely to be reciting the PoA most often is _elementary-school kids_. They really have no idea what it means, but at most public schools, it’s a daily thing. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/96 "2015-10-21T23:33:51Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I know the SDMB is not an accurate cross section of U.S. attitudes, but I wonder if _ **anyone** _ still thinks the Pledge of Allegiance is a good idea? Are there really people out there that think “every school child should pledge allegiance to our flag and nation every morning at the start of the school day because…[insert non crazy reason here if you can]?” For the same reason that any citizen convicted of treason should still be given the death penalty, even today. It’s just common sense. > [@Chronos](#): > > And I owe absolutely no duty nor honor to the flag. I owe it to the ideals the flag stands for, which are absolutely not the same thing. No, in that context they are exactly the same thing, and even as a grade-schooler I fully understood one represented the other. Plus saying “I pledge allegiance, to the ideals that the US flag stands for” just doesn’t roll trippingly off the tongue… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/97 "2015-10-22T03:04:48Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I know the SDMB is not an accurate cross section of U.S. attitudes, but I wonder if _ **anyone** _ still thinks the Pledge of Allegiance is a good idea? Are there really people out there that think “every school child should pledge allegiance to our flag and nation every morning at the start of the school day because…[insert non crazy reason here if you can]?” > [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > For the same reason that any citizen convicted of treason should still be given the death penalty, even today. It’s just common sense. :dubious: Given the fact that the death penalty for anything is not only NOT common sense, but is morally wrong, always and everywhere, perhaps you could try again. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/98 "2015-10-22T04:27:47Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > :dubious: > > Given the fact that the death penalty for anything is not only NOT common sense, but is morally wrong, always and everywhere, perhaps you could try again. That is not a fact. That is an opinion. I will apply the death penalty to anyone of either sex and most any age that is actively trying to kill me or mine. If a person has strong anti-death penalty feelings, they probably should not live in a state where the majority do feel that is is OK and voted it in. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/99 "2015-10-22T04:58:25Z")
My way or the highway, eh? If you disagree with the majority, you don’t have the right to dissent: hop it to somewhere else. Kind of…un-American, isn’t it? Our whole system is built around the protection of minority viewpoints and the right of dissent. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165/100 "2015-10-22T07:44:26Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > If a person has strong anti-death penalty feelings, they probably should not live in a state where the majority do feel that is is OK and voted it in. For some reason this makes me think, “_let’s getter dun_!!” yelled loudly in Redneck 'Murican. I don’t know why. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-stand-during-the-pledge-of-allegiance/735165.md?page=6)