# Do you still consider Edward Snowden a hero now that we know he's disclosed secret and LEGAL info? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 20, 2014, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236 "2014-01-20T00:29:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/101 "2014-01-23T01:16:55Z")
andros-Do YOU get that this is NOT a game, and that there are people bent on our destruction, and that our government has a moral imperative to protect its citizens! ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/102 "2014-01-23T01:21:34Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > andros-Do YOU get that this is NOT a game, and that there are people bent on our destruction, and that our government has a moral imperative to protect its citizens! So we should ban guns? ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/103 "2014-01-23T01:39:09Z")
Wouldn’t break my heart. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/104 "2014-01-23T01:39:21Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > andros-Do YOU get that this is NOT a game, and that there are people bent on our destruction, and that our government has a moral imperative to protect its citizens! Goodness! I…I hadn’t ever thought of that. Thank you, my friend, for opening my eyes. :rolleyes: Yes, we assign to our government the duty to protect us, as individuals and as a nation. It’s in no way a “moral imperative,” but it definitely is part of its job. We also assign to our government the duty to maintain our individual and collective civil rights. As a society, we must weigh the former against the latter. Some of us are more willing to yield some freedoms for the sake of security than others are. Some of us are more likely to emphasize the risks posed by our enemies, some the risks of government encroachment. For my part, I think there have _always_ been people bent on our destruction. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/105 "2014-01-23T01:41:56Z")
Oh I agree that we’ve always had enemies, and until we decide self-preservation is mor important than being PC, we always will. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/106 "2014-01-23T01:44:21Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Oh I agree that we’ve always had enemies, and until we decide self-preservation is mor important than being PC, we always will. I’m sorry…I’m not getting the joke. Or are you actually being serious? ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/107 "2014-01-23T01:51:50Z")
I’m deadly serious. The fact you think I’m joking belies how seriously you take the threat against our country, and indeed, civilization. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/108 "2014-01-23T01:54:32Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Oh I agree that we’ve always had enemies, and until we decide self-preservation is mor important than being PC, we always will. Let’s just go full 1984, Big Brother style government, then? Safety first, last and only, right? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/109 "2014-01-23T02:02:16Z")
I’m kinda wondering where “PC” came from. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/110 "2014-01-23T02:08:33Z")
Miller-America refuses to examine the behavior of our enemies, and treat them accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/111 "2014-01-23T02:11:59Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > I’m deadly serious. The fact you think I’m joking belies how seriously you take the threat against our country, and indeed, civilization. Where do you draw the line? With guns? Cars? Parenting? Um, 3,000 people died on 9/11. 60,000 people die per year from cars and guns. I’m not seeing a serious threat to our civilization. Are Iran-backed terrorists going to destroy America because we can’t track your phone calls? Nothing Snowden revealed prevents us from continuing to monitor the communications of known criminals and enemies of the state. That’s no excuse to allow government cameras in everyone’s bedroom. We shouldn’t monitor Angela Merkel’s cell phone and we shouldn’t monitor the citizens of our national allies and we shouldn’t use our tools to engage in corporate espionage. It’s pretty simple. Snowden apparently has withheld information that would be damaging to our intelligence collection methods, and we’ll never know what those are. I’m pretty sure it’s written somewhere in the constitution that it’s every citizen’s duty to reveal wrongdoing by any officer of the government. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/112 "2014-01-23T02:25:05Z")
Because she is German, and a US ally, tapping her was wasteful. We need to be willing to do whatever it takes to be safe, and to eliminate anyone who gets in our way. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/113 "2014-01-23T02:30:55Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Because you have nothing to hide? Well, yes. The NSA isn’t interested in anything I’m doing, and the only reason any of their programs would affect me is if I were trying to hide evidence of criminal activity. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/114 "2014-01-23T02:32:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, yes. The NSA isn’t interested in anything I’m doing, and the only reason any of their programs would affect me is if I were trying to hide evidence of criminal activity. This!! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/115 "2014-01-23T02:40:17Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Where do you draw the line? With guns? Cars? Parenting? I’m perfectly OK with getting rid of all three. > [@](#): > > We shouldn’t monitor Angela Merkel’s cell phone and we shouldn’t monitor the citizens of our national allies and we shouldn’t use our tools to engage in corporate espionage. - Why not? - Is it your belief that our national allies don’t monitor our citizens or try to monitor our leaders’ cell phones? > [@](#): > > Snowden apparently has withheld information that would be damaging to our intelligence collection methods The very act of him leaking anything is damaging to our intelligence collection methods. > [@](#): > > I’m pretty sure it’s written somewhere in the constitution that it’s every citizen’s duty to reveal wrongdoing by any officer of the government. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/116 "2014-01-23T02:42:19Z")
They probably do. It’s just as wasteful as us spying on them. It’s a waste of finite resources. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/117 "2014-01-23T04:23:09Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > I’m deadly serious. The fact you think I’m joking belies how seriously you take the threat against our country, and indeed, civilization. Golly, apparently so. Please explain to me in detail the imminent threat to the United States and “civilization.” ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/118 "2014-01-23T04:25:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, yes. The NSA isn’t interested in anything I’m doing, and the only reason any of their programs would affect me is if I were trying to hide evidence of criminal activity. Well, I personally find the “nothing to hide” argument untenable. I’m sure you can understand that a perfectly sane, educated, and rational person might disagree with you. Qu’on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j’y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/119 "2014-01-23T04:35:17Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Cite? Not in the Constitution, but from the Continental Congress’ whistle blower protection law of 1778: “Resolved: That it is the duty of all persons in the service of the United States, as well as all other inhabitants thereof, to give the earliest information to Congress or any other proper authority of any misconduct, frauds or misdemeanors committed by any officers or persons in the service of these states, which may come to their knowledge.” Also: > [@](#): > > Nearly two centuries later, the Supreme Court justice William O. Douglas, praising the founders’ commitment to freedom of speech, wrote: “The dominant purpose of the First Amendment was to prohibit the widespread practice of government suppression of embarrassing information.” > **[Opinion | The Whistle-Blowers of 1777 (Published 2011)](https://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/13/opinion/13kohn.html)** > > The tension between protecting true national security secrets and ensuring the public’s “right to know” about abuses of authority goes back to the time of America’s founding. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236/120 "2014-01-23T04:35:54Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Qu’on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j’y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre. Are you seriously saying that the US government frames its own citizens? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-consider-edward-snowden-a-hero-now-that-we-know-hes-disclosed-secret-and-legal-info/679236.md?page=7)