# Do You Still Have Hope For the United States? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 4, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575 "2017-12-04T20:51:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/21 "2017-12-04T22:19:27Z")
Not until the white baby boomers die off. Obviously not all of them are bad (lots of white baby boomers are good people), but most brainwashed, pathologically selfish right wingers are white people over age 50. So do I have hope? Yes, but not until the 2030s or so. By then many of the angry, brainwashed white nationalist voters will be dead and replaced by millennials and minorities. My hope is that from the 2018-2030 period the dems can win one house of congress or the presidency long enough to stop the GOP from doing too much damage. The GOP having both houses of congress and the presidency is a pretty big problem that has to be blocked. Not all, but enough to move the overton window. But I could be wrong. America is getting more and more insane with time, not less. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/22 "2017-12-04T22:30:31Z")
I’m on a crowded train. Suddenly, one guy bellows like an elephant, takes a massive shit in his pants, reaches in with both hands and starts flinging it in every direction. Instead of tackling him or even being angry, about half of the passengers just smile and nod. A few even clap and cheer and egg him on. They point around at me and anyone else who looks indignant and laugh like it’s the funniest thing they’ve ever seen, even though their faces are spattered with the same shit. At the next stop, the insane guy gets off. There’s shit everywhere— on the ceiling, on the windows, and all over every man, woman and child in the train car. Some passengers are livid or near-catatonic, unable to believe or process what just happened, but others chuckle and shake their heads and go back to reading their books and phones and tablets, all dripping with shit. No, I would not characterize myself as especially sanguine about the course of the United States at this moment. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/23 "2017-12-04T22:40:09Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > It has been dark before. In the 70s it seemed like the country was going down. Violence, Inflation, losing in Vietnam, Gas lines, hostage crisis, hijackings, wild cat strikes, disillusionment over Watergate, rioting, popularity of disco. It was bad. We recovered. Yeah. This is nothing compared to the 60s either. Major political figures assassinated. Big parts of American cities being burned down nearly every summer. Anti-war demonstrations and the war still escalating. On top of it all the Cold War with the very real possibility of Armageddon. This is an ugly time politically to be sure. Trump I think is clearly weakening the US’s standing in the world as well as the integrity of our government. But we’re not going to be taken over by fascism, nor are we going to slide into a civil war. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/24 "2017-12-04T22:48:10Z")
As already mentioned, the Civil War era, Great Depression, WWII, and the height of the Vietnam conflict arguably were worse times for the Union. The current period is more related to the potential than the actual, but that doesn’t mean the OP shouldn’t be concerned. **Shodan**. Donald Trump remains easily the most vicious, incompetent, day-to-day utter dickhead to have held the office of President since I’ve been alive (1954). Nevertheless, I’m waiting for the first mass arrests of journalists, or declaration of martial law, or aerial bombardment of North Korea, or postponement/cancellation of a major election, before I really start crapping out bricks. With that said, the next couple of years do not exactly have me overflowing with confidence for the Nation. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/25 "2017-12-04T22:50:36Z")
Living through this isn’t great, but I think we’ll make it out. What’s been broken can be fixed. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/26 "2017-12-04T22:57:51Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Not until the white baby boomers die off. > > Obviously not all of them are bad (lots of white baby boomers are good people), but most brainwashed, pathologically selfish right wingers are white people over age 50. > > So do I have hope? Yes, but not until the 2030s or so. By then many of the angry, brainwashed white nationalist voters will be dead and replaced by millennials and minorities. My hope is that from the 2018-2030 period the dems can win one house of congress or the presidency long enough to stop the GOP from doing too much damage. The GOP having both houses of congress and the presidency is a pretty big problem that has to be blocked. > > Not all, but enough to move the overton window. > > But I could be wrong. America is getting more and more insane with time, not less. So mindset is linked to skin color now? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/27 "2017-12-04T23:02:41Z")
Yes. It ain’t over. The country that has more privately-owned small arms than many armies have–that country is not in a Civil War. There’s hope. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/28 "2017-12-04T23:32:53Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So mindset is linked to skin color now? :rolleyes: Yes. Thats called American politics 101. Whites are more republican than non-whites. > **[2016 election results: Exit polls](https://www.cnn.com/election/2016/results/exit-polls)** > > Full exit-poll data on how Americans voted, including by race, age, gender and education level. I fully stand by my statement. Many of the most rabid, amoral, brainwashed, radicalized, misinformed, arrogant, proto-fascist right wing extremists I’ve met are white people over 50. More men than women, but tons of women in that group. There are non-whites and people under 50 in that group, but those 2 demographics play a big role. > **[Tea Party Supporters: Who They Are and What They Believe](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tea-party-supporters-who-they-are-and-what-they-believe/)** > > CBS News/New York Times Poll Breaks Down The Tea Party Movement; Supporters Largely White, Over 45, and Angry > [@](#): > > Eighteen percent of Americans identify as Tea Party supporters. The vast majority of them – 89 percent – are white. Just one percent is black. > > They tend to skew older: Three in four are 45 years old or older, including 29 percent who are 65 plus. They are also more likely to be men (59 percent) than women (41 percent). As they die of old age, the country will get better just like America got better when the defenders of segregation in the south died of old age. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/29 "2017-12-05T00:16:42Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Yes. > It ain’t over. > The country that has more privately-owned small arms than many armies have–that country is not in a Civil War. > There’s hope. You know, this is true, and I hear this a lot (and own a few guns, including the “scary looking” AR-15), but…I’m not sure about the relevance. We don’t have tanks, mortars, .50 cal machine guns, stealth fighters and bombers, hordes of grenades, light anti tank weapons like the Javelin, nuclear bombs and missiles, tons of c-4, etc, etc…in case the government gets “uppity”. Our small arms won’t matter when the Apaches are flying over our heads. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/30 "2017-12-05T00:23:24Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I’m waiting until at least the 2018 elections before giving up all hope. Yeah. This. I’m not holding my breath, though. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/31 "2017-12-05T00:23:30Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > \As they die of old age, the country will get better just like America got better when the defenders of segregation in the south died of old age. What surprises, and bothers me the most is that they are still around and raising new generations that hold their ‘ideals’. They put trump in office. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/32 "2017-12-05T00:28:25Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > What surprises, and bothers me the most is that they are still around and raising new generations that hold their ‘ideals’. They put trump in office. Younger people are more non-white. Also if you look at the exit polls, younger white people aren’t as right wing as their parents. There is no telling what will happen long term. But I’m assuming as the most radicalized, arrogant, misinformed, protofascist voters die off and are replaced, the US’s politics will become more sane and responsible. I _hope_. As an example, take Roy Moore. > **[Fox News Poll: Jones leads Moore by 8 points in Alabama Senate race](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-jones-leads-moore-by-8-points-in-alabama-senate-race)** > > Alabama voters want a candidate who will represent their state with honor -- and they think Doug Jones has strong moral character and Roy Moore doesn’t. That gives the Democrat the lead in the U.S. Senate race. > [@](#): > > Support from women is the key to the Democrat’s advantage in this red state, as Jones is their choice by 26 points (58-32 percent). The gap grows to 49 points among women under age 45 (69-20 percent), and he’s up by 11 among women ages 45 and over (51-40 percent). Jones even receives 19 percent support from Republican women (to Moore’s 68 percent). Women under 45 prefer Jones over Moore by 49 points, women over 45 prefer Jones by 11 points. Hopefully there is a generational shift and the pro-Trump, pro-Moore aspects of the GOP die of old age before they can do too much damage to America. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/33 "2017-12-05T00:29:53Z")
Meh. We’ve been through a lot in 241 years. Hell, we survived Nixon. It’ll be rough until 2021, but the tide will turn the other way. I’m not ready to go into survivalist mode yet. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/34 "2017-12-05T00:33:04Z")
The sky ain’t falling. These things go in cycles. Eventually, things will shift back in the other direction. In the meantime, the sun will continue to rise, birds will sing, grass will grow–and in some states you can smoke it if ya want. Then again, a giant asteroid may destroy the Earth and kill us all at any moment, and there’s not a damn thing anyone can do to stop it. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/35 "2017-12-05T00:33:09Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Meh. We’ve been through a lot in 241 years. **Hell, we survived Nixon**. It’ll be rough until 2021, but the tide will turn the other way. I’m not ready to go into survivalist mode yet. Bolding mine. I think that Nixon actually gave a shit about the country. trump only cares about himself. That’s the problem IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/36 "2017-12-05T00:36:12Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > The sky ain’t falling. These things go in cycles. Eventually, things will shift back in the other direction. In the meantime, the sun will continue to rise, birds will sing, grass will grow–and in some states you can smoke it if ya want. Then again, a giant asteroid may destroy the Earth and kill us all at any moment, and there’s not a damn thing anyone can do to stop it. I dunno, everybody made a big deal out of it when the sun went dark a few months ago. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/37 "2017-12-05T00:58:30Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Meh. We’ve been through a lot in 241 years. Hell, we survived Nixon. It’ll be rough until 2021, but the tide will turn the other way. I’m not ready to go into survivalist mode yet. I would take that venomous paranoid son of bitch over Trump any day and every day. Nixon did a lot of good, though \*\*not \*\*enough to counter the bad things he did, but what the hell good has Trump done? Under Nixon we got the first real Nuclear Arms reduction talks, he went to China, Clean Water Act, Clean Air Act, signed into law OSHA and of all things the EPA. A republican put in the EPA? What a pinko commy liberal politician he must have been. Honestly, he may have been better than Cheney’s puppet, Bush the lesser. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/38 "2017-12-05T01:05:51Z")
Not at all. Not necessarily just because of the horrible people in charge, but I completely and utterly lost faith in the vast majority of Americans. They’ve voted in a person who on tape admitted to committing sexual assault, a grown-ass man who tried to fuck teenagers could very well win the election, Montana voters elected a politician who assaulted a reporter, churches and concerts get shot up and all a good portion of people scream is “muh guns.” Pro-lifers love to talk about abortion but don’t give a damn about children being able to go to the doctor like in every other civilized country in the world (cuz that’s socialism). You can show them on paper how Republican policy is horrid for them, but they’re so locked into their cult that they’ll continue to vote against their self-interest. So no, no faith whatsoever. I just wish those red states would stop dragging down the civilized states. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/39 "2017-12-05T01:13:15Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > Not at all. Not necessarily just because of the horrible people in charge, but I completely and utterly lost faith in the vast majority of Americans. They’ve voted in a person who on tape admitted to committing sexual assault, a grown-ass man who tried to fuck teenagers could very well win the election, Montana voters elected a politician who assaulted a reporter, churches and concerts get shot up and all a good portion of people scream is “muh guns.” Pro-lifers love to talk about abortion but don’t give a damn about children being able to go to the doctor like in every other civilized country in the world (cuz that’s socialism). You can show them on paper how Republican policy is horrid for them, but they’re so locked into their cult that they’ll continue to vote against their self-interest. > > So no, no faith whatsoever. I just wish those red states would stop dragging down the civilized states. This red state/blue state nonsense is the stupidest meme to infest the boards. You do know that each state is not a homogeneous hive mind don’t you? In some houses people disagree politically! Yet you think that a state can be characterized so simply? ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575/40 "2017-12-05T01:15:58Z")
Yeah, you can disagree, but it’s not a good sign when Trump voters outnumber everyone else, no? I have more sympathy for purple states. Red? Not at all. Especially states that are consistently on the wrong side of history. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-have-hope-for-the-united-states/803575.md?page=3)