# Do you still support Harper? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2006, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127 "2006-05-25T02:58:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/1 "2006-05-25T02:58:48Z")
In his first days off office he appoints a non-elected person to his cabinet and accepts a floor crossing from a riding where the conservatives didn’t finish even finish 2nd in, and were a distant 3rd. He then censures his own ministers for talking out of turn. This talking out of turn was commenting on the ministers own portfolio. All of his ministers, and members of his caucus must first get clearance to talk to the media, and the ok from the Prime Minster’s Office before holding any conferences, or even answering questions from the media. Now [this?](http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/05/24/harper05242006.html) With this assine statement? > [@Stephen Harper](#): > > unfortunately the press gallery has taken the view they are going to be the opposition to the government. Does Harper really think we are this stupid? That we are going to believe that all Mainstream Media is in fact nothing but a tool of the ever bleeding ‘left’? Are we not suppose to know or remember that this very same press gallery once laughed openly at the former PM, Paul Martin? Or this part of the ‘left’ media? You know the one, the one that is actually right/left/centre? Or what some of us would call balanced? [McGill Study](http://www.ompp.mcgill.ca/) [The results (PDF)](http://www.ompp.mcgill.ca/pages/reports/OMPPElection2006ByPaper(06-01-22).pdf) So how about it? Does he still get a free pass for a few months? Do you still support this guy? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/2 "2006-05-25T03:02:44Z")
Ermm . . . Would this have somethinorother to do with some non-existent non-country up north somewheres? ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/3 "2006-05-25T03:15:23Z")
Let’s not that hissy fit he threw after one of his appointees was rejected by a parliamentary committee, after said appointee blamed violent crime in Canada on immigrants. Harper acts like a 5-year-old child when he doesn’t get his way; he just takes his toys and goes home. Frankly, I’m embarrassed he’s Prime Minister of this country. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/4 "2006-05-25T03:22:54Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Harper acts like a 5-year-old child when he doesn’t get his way; he just takes his toys and goes home. Frankly, I’m embarrassed he’s Prime Minister of this country. How nice for we “the embarassed” in the US to have company. However, based on this thread, our embarassment is much deeper than yours. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/5 "2006-05-25T03:31:01Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Harper acts like a 5-year-old child when he doesn’t get his way; he just takes his toys and goes home. Frankly, I’m embarrassed he’s Prime Minister of this country. How nice for we “the embarassed” in the US to have company. However, based on this thread, our embarassment is much deeper than yours, or at least it should be. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/6 "2006-05-25T03:32:19Z")
Stupid board. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/7 "2006-05-25T11:36:48Z")
How much money has he blown on scandals and stupid, expensive projects like gun control? None? Well, then he’s doing better than the liberals before him and he’ll keep my vote (and it’s not like I was happy with the floor crossing bullshit, either). ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/8 "2006-05-25T15:10:20Z")
> [@Queuing](#): > > Does Harper really think we are this stupid? That we are going to believe that all Mainstream Media is in fact nothing but a tool of the ever bleeding ‘left’? Based on the American precedent, there are enough people who are indeed this stupid that such an assertion may get some traction in the public consciousness. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/9 "2006-05-25T15:29:22Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > How much money has he blown on scandals and stupid, expensive projects like gun control? None? Well, then he’s doing better than the liberals before him and he’ll keep my vote (and it’s not like I was happy with the floor crossing bullshit, either). The Liberals were in power for a long time - it would be surprising if there _weren’t_ a few scandals and expensive programs that turn out to be a waste of money. Given time, power can corrupt anyone. If the Conservatives were in power that long, I guarantee it would be the same thing, just with different scandals and different projects. The Conservatives just haven’t had enough time in office yet to start some scandals. And they’re too hamstrung by their weak minority government to really initiate anything too huge or controversial right now. ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/10 "2006-05-25T17:05:02Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > How much money has he blown on scandals and stupid, expensive projects like gun control? None? Well, then he’s doing better than the liberals before him and he’ll keep my vote (and it’s not like I was happy with the floor crossing bullshit, either). So two wrongs make a right do they? IMO blowing tax dollars on Adscam, and blowing off the media are pretty close to equal. The reasons given for both are asinine, and disparaging to the average Canadian. As well the media plays a very important role, integral I would say, in teh political process and democracy. It is good to know that you vote solely with your wallet, doesn’t surprise me in the least either. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/11 "2006-05-25T17:06:34Z")
I never supported the conservatives in the first place, but I really was trying to give them a fair shot. However, Harper seems to be acting…bizarre. While I have no major complaints about the budget, the floor crossing thing is creepy, and the new press stuff is totally wacko. How a politician can reasonably expect to never be asked hard questions in his tenure as leader of the country is totally beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/12 "2006-05-25T17:26:36Z")
Good for him! It reminds me of when the Beatles decided to stop touring because they couldn’t even hear themselves play their own music. They decided to become a studio band and took rock and roll in a completely new direction. So, instead of posturing for the media Mr. Harper has decided to go back to the _studio_ and do some real work for the country. As for the comment on blaming violence crime on immigration, here’s what Gwyn Morgan had to say “The run-away violence (is) driven mainly by Jamaican immigrants in Toronto, or the all-too-frequent violence between Asian and other ethnic gangs.” Again, good for him! He’s absolutely correct and wasn’t afraid to tell the truth instead of hiding behind some PC bullshit statement. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/13 "2006-05-25T17:47:06Z")
> [@Queuing](#): > > So two wrongs make a right do they? > > IMO blowing tax dollars on Adscam, and blowing off the media are pretty close to equal. The reasons given for both are asinine, and disparaging to the average Canadian. As well the media plays a very important role, integral I would say, in teh political process and democracy. What’s the difference between not talking to the media and lying to the media when you talk to them? Not much in my books. > [@](#): > > It is good to know that you vote solely with your wallet, Well, if all parties are equally evil and do stupid things, then yeah, I’m voting with my wallet. > [@](#): > > doesn’t surprise me in the least either. Do you know me from somewhere? :dubious: Otherwise, it’s nice to be famous. Nah, it’s probably just some sort of crack against ‘redneck’ Albertans. Typical. ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/14 "2006-05-25T17:54:03Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Do you know me from somewhere? :dubious: Otherwise, it’s nice to be famous. Nah, it’s probably just some sort of crack against ‘redneck’ Albertans. Typical. Typical? No, I know from here, and I remember your views. Always happy to know that you can turn any comment into a “them damn arrogant Ontario people” in keeping with your track record. For the record I considered it a typical Uzi comment. ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/15 "2006-05-25T17:55:04Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > As for the comment on blaming violence crime on immigration, here’s what Gwyn Morgan had to say “The run-away violence (is) driven mainly by Jamaican immigrants in Toronto, or the all-too-frequent violence between Asian and other ethnic gangs.” Again, good for him! He’s absolutely correct and wasn’t afraid to tell the truth instead of hiding behind some PC bullshit statement. What runaway violence? I’m not convinced this is a problem that needs so much attention. And I write this from one of the “most violent” neighbourhoods in Toronto. > [@Statistics Canada](#): > > Canada’s crime rate, based on data reported by police services, fell a marginal 1% last year. While the total violent crime rate declined, the national homicide rate increased 12%. > > Except for an increase in 2003, the crime rate has generally been falling since 1991 when it peaked. Police reported about 2.6 million offences in 2004, resulting in a crime rate that was 12% lower than a decade ago. > > Last year’s decline was driven largely by a 5% decrease in Ontario, whose crime rate was the lowest in the country for the second year in a row. Most of this decline was due to **large decreases in reported crime in the census metropolitan areas (CMAs) of Toronto**, Hamilton, Ottawa and St. Catharines–Niagara. (from [here](http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/050721/d050721a.htm) - emphasis added to address Morgan’s crack about Toronto) So in regards to this couched assumption, Gwyn Morgan is completely wrong. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/16 "2006-05-25T18:02:47Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > As for the comment on blaming violence crime on immigration, here’s what Gwyn Morgan had to say “The run-away violence (is) driven mainly by Jamaican immigrants in Toronto, or the all-too-frequent violence between Asian and other ethnic gangs.” Again, good for him! He’s absolutely correct and wasn’t afraid to tell the truth instead of hiding behind some PC bullshit statement. Cite? Lots of people, including some Dopers, blame immigrants for crime in the U.S., but none has yet been able to come up with a cite for the assumption that immigrants, legal or illegal, are any more prone to crime than native-born citizens are. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/17 "2006-05-25T21:02:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Cite? Lots of people, including some Dopers, blame immigrants for crime in the U.S., but none has yet been able to come up with a cite for the assumption that immigrants, legal or illegal, are any more prone to crime than native-born citizens are. Read this article on the [CBC](http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/jamaica/). > [@](#): > > The 2001 census shows that 3.5 per cent of Toronto’s population was born in Jamaica – about 88,000 people. The Jamaican community in Toronto is struggling to address gang-related violence that has been behind many recent shootings in the city. Yes, Toronto is still a very safe city compared to other major North American cities, but [gun crimes](http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20051227/homicide_year_051227/20051227/?hub=TorontoHome) have indeed been escalating. BTW, I’m not anti-immigration, in fact I am an immigrant from Scotland. I have worked with people from all over the world and hold many of them in the highest regard. Political correctness has taken over common sense. If the people committing the crimes are identifiable by ethnicity, then the press should be free to state this without repercussions, no? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2006, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/18 "2006-05-25T22:14:27Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Read this article on the [CBC](http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/jamaica/). _That’s_ your cite? It’s a general over-view of Jamaican history, with two sentences about immigrant violence in Canada, that don’t even support your original claim! ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/19 "2006-05-26T03:30:00Z")
I’ve been mixed about Mr Harpers governement. One moment I detest him for bringing in floor crossers and apointing cabinet members the next I applaud his trek to Afgahnistan. I hate the BS fight with the press and I like his no nonsense attempt to finally end the softwood lumber debate. My reaction to his governemnet is bipolar to say the least it swings from hate to appreciation sometimes within a few days. I don’t know what to make of it but I refuse to be partisan about it. We should look at his governement honestly and weigh its merits and its faults honestly. It’s just so damned hard to coem up with a single answer though. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127/20 "2006-05-26T03:51:41Z")
Look, why is it considered disgraceful for Harper to “accept a floor crossing”? When a member switches parties, it might be unfair to the constituents who elected him/her, but why shouldn’t the PM take advantage of it? Perhaps there are some accepted standards of decorum in parliamentary government that we don’t understand down here. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-still-support-harper/358127.md?page=2)