Sure, it might have been overkill - or not, I don’t know the whole story. But “overkill” was an essential part of the FBI’s history, until Trump.
Think back to February 2017, when the FBI launched an investigation because a member of the new administration lied to the American public and Mike Pence.
Then think of all the way worse stuff that happened subsequently, which the FBI seemed to overlook. Stuff like Trump sending his goon Keith Schiller to commit armed robbery to get Trump’s medical records from his doctor, his adminstration trying to extort people like Joe Scarborough and Jeff Bezos……the list goes on forever.
I want the old FBI back, the oppressive ham-handed agency that investigates everything.
Bad poll. Of course it depends on whether it was justified. I think it was almost certainly justified so I don’t have a lot of heartburn over it, but as written if you don’t pick the middle option you’re wrong.
Your reasoning is “the item could be just a teapot, so any tempest in it is just a tempest in a teapot”. This is unconvincing, because it may not be a teapot.
And indeed, the very fact that such an extraordinary effort is being made by some people to get the item, and others to keep it hidden, very strongly suggests it ain’t no teapot.
On hearing it, my first reaction was, yes! get in! and other childish whoops of hilarity.
My second thought, which followed pretty quickly, was “christ, I hope their justification is watertight”
I have to assume it is, there can’t be a federal employee who doesn’t know what a destabilising error such a spurious search would be. (so I voted Yes)
With suitable distance I can say that I really do want everything done by the book. I’d love to see Trump in court and have to face up to things he’s done but to do it on the basis of malpractice of any kind? no, that’s too high a price. Here’s hoping for the best.
Agreed. If he escapes prison, it is more likely he will careen around Mar-a-Lago with his Napoleon hat askew screeching he was framed and bellowing for his generals than grow up. I’m not thrilled with having to choose between the FBI and Trump, but living in Canada, it’s moot.
I don’t understand why no one is asking the important question here: What the fuck was Trump doing with highly classified documents at his personal residence in the first place? This is illegal. What did he intend to do with them?
My understanding, based on many sources of reporting (print, television) is that he had some stuff that was so highly classified it couldn’t even be described in detail in the inventory list. There were up to 3 pages of the list consisting of highly classified information. There were roughly 100 pages listing the non-classified stuff.
Everyone is so worried about the DOJ/FBI doing their job properly, but that’s based on Trump talking points and misdirection as usual. The real issue here is why he hasn’t already been arrested for mishandling – likely deliberately – highly classified information?
AIUI, according to this timeline the National Archives and Records folks have been (understandably) fussing about that since at least May 2021.
And so on. I think the answer to the question “why he hasn’t already been arrested” for mishandling classified materials is the same as the answer to why he hasn’t already been arrested for other likely violations: because the mills of justice grind slowly, especially where former Presidents are concerned.
Personally, all I currently need to know about the situation is that this obstructionist asshole has been wasting government time and money for over a year with his childish refusal to comply with official document handling protocol. Anybody who complained back in 2016-17 about Hillary Clinton having some official emails on a private server, and is now whining about “Deep State” “persecution” of Trump about these documents, needs to be hitting themselves smartly in the nuts or other sensitive spot on a thrice-daily basis until they manage to clear their cognitive blockage.
I should probably have noted that my questions were being asked rhetorically. I’m aware of all you posted, but thank you for summarizing it so well for others.
I just see so many people falling for the Trump misdirection about whether the FBI should have executed their search; whether it was done properly; what was the nature of what they found, etc. These are the wrong questions. The questions should be around why Trump had this stuff in the first place, and what he intended to do with it. (Again, rhetorically asked.)
No probbo, sorry, I interpreted you too literally!
What I would like to see more of in response to all the pearl-clutching about “this is the first time in 250 years that the FBI have ever executed a search of a former President’s home!” is “This is the first time in 250 years that a former President has illegally removed classified documents from the White House and persistently refused to give them back when requested by the National Archives and Records Administration.”
Because that very question is being discussed in other threads:
This one is specifically about the perceptions of the propriety of the FBI’s actions, and shows that, at least here, most people aren’t falling for Trumps bullshit.
Here’s my view of Trump world. I feel the Trump circle is essentially made up of Trump and a bunch of mini-Trumps.
There’s no core principle present. There’s no goal they’re trying to achieve that’s greater than the group itself.
Trump, at the center, sees only himself. Everything he does is to serve himself. He even sees his own family as his possessions and values them the way he values his money or his real estate; they’re something good he owns. And if he didn’t own them, they would cease having any value to him. Donald Trump is the center of his own universe.
Where Trump deludes himself is thinking other people see things the same way. Trump thinks the people around him value themselves based on how valuable they are to Trump. Trump thinks this because that’s the way he thinks and he lacks the empathy to imagine what other people are thinking.
Trump is wrong. The people around Trump are essentially copies of Trump. They are all looking out for themselves and only judge things, including other people, by how valuable they are to them personally. They’re not serving Trump because they think Trump deserves it. They’re serving Trump because it benefits them. When they praise and flatter Trump, it doesn’t reflect their true feelings. They just know that praise and flattery is the price they need to pay to have access to Trump.
Trump takes things from other people (mostly his supporters now because he’s lost access to government money). And then the people around Trump take things from Trump.
Sure, but this is an opinion thread, and it’s why I support the FBI’s search. What they are doing is nothing out of the ordinary. What is out of the ordinary is Trump’s steadfast refusal to comply with legal norms and procedures.
I went with the “Maybe” option - of course the FBI needs to justify it. Every search warrant needs to be justified. And the justification comes before the warrant is granted. That’s how it works.
Does the FBI need to “justify it” in the court of public opinion? No. That would be pointless and counterproductive. They just need to provide a sufficient justification for the courts.
I have no reason to believe that the search warrant was not lawfully and appropriately obtained and executed. Whether it produced the intended outcome remains to be seen. Not sure if that counts as “support” but it certainly isn’t opposition.
Of course I support it. I would have preferred that it would have been done with him at home and having to watch the feds paw through all of his stuff and making him open his safe for them.
These aren’t his documents, they belong to the government. If he has information about say the location and aliases of undercover foreign agents, their lives could be in danger if this information leaked out. He had no excuse to take them to Florida in the first place, he could have returned all of the stuff when he was first asked but no, he chose to hang on to some of this stuff. Why? Damned if know an damned if I care. He made his bed of shit, he can lie in it.
Personally I hope they found secret pardons for himself and for his family and those were taken to be shredded.
And IIRC when both the RNC and DNC had servers hacked in 2016, the one server that didn’t get hacked was Hilary’s. It may have been private but was apparently a hell of a lot more secure than many government servers.
As for the Mar–A-Lago raid to retrieve classified documents, as long as everything was done by the book (and it sounds like it was) then I have no complaints.
If this was just a search out of the clear blue, then I’d be against it because it could constitute political harassment, no matter how odious I may personally find Trump.
But as part of an investigation sanctioned by one of the States, Congress, or the DOJ, then I’m all for it, just like I’d be for it for anyone accused of similar wrongdoing.