Do You Support the Libyan Intervention?

[lisiate]

@Qin_Shi_Huangdi

The Tamil Tigers did not have support of any large segment of the population nor was the government commiting mass murder against the civilians. In that case the elimination of the rebels were good and brought stability to an island which is badly in need of it.

I agree that the elimination of the LTTE was a good thing overall but you are wrong in your first two assertions - the LTTE did have widespread support amongst the Tamil populace (how else could they have fought for 36 years?) and the Sri Lankan government did kill “tens of thousands of civilians” while suppressing them (sources : wikipedia on alleged war crimes in Sri Lanka and the UN report linked there - particularly page 74).

We were allied with Stalin in World War II. Sometimes you have to tolerate bastards and wait for the right opportunity to strike.

This is irrelevant. The USSR’s involvement in WWII was a result of their invasion by a foreign power. It had nothing to do with involvement in the internal conflicts within another country. Oh and might I remind you that Stalin died in his bed while still the leader of the USSR - guess that right opportunity to strike never came.

Otherwise modern warfare is impossible.

You say that like it’s a bad thing. Look the civilised world has agreed to abide by the various conventions and protocols governing warfare in an attempt to mitigate the evils and horrors that war brings. Transgressing these rules and protocols is seen as wrong.

“Cartoon villains”? Was Pol Pot just a fiction? Considering the abominable dictators of the last century, Gadaffhi’s actions are perfectly believable.

Pol Pot also died of old age in the jungles near the Thai border, without any fear of NATO bombers. Are you really telling me that you believe that Libyan forces are being issued Viagra? “Here’s your ammo, rations and field dressings Muammar. Oh, and don’t forget these blue pills for all the raping after.” It doesn’t make sense.

And Kosovo turned out just fine.

Thanks for bringing Kosovo up, I forgot to in my previous post. In Kosovo Nato became involved to prevent ethnic cleansing by the Serbs. In doing so NATO assissted the very shady KLA to take control over most of Kosovo and pretty much ‘cleanse’ the area of Serbs instead. I wouldn’t say that Kosovo ahs turned out ‘just fine’ at all. Oh and for more cartoon villiany check out hte allegations of Organ theft in Kosovo by people linked to the KLA leadership.

The US has intervened in other internal conflicts and haven’t in others.

Well yes, gotta agree with this as a satement of fact.

The NATO governments are cutting trivalities and frivolities not things that are matters of life and death like this.

How is the internal politics of Libya a matter of ‘life and death’ for NATO taxpayers?

How are we bad. Typical “You are as bad as Bin Laden/Gadaffhi/Stalin/” type.

You (singular) are bad becuase you advocate measures that will result in the deaths of hundreds, if not thousands of civilians to ‘avenge’ something that happened in the 1980s. Typical ‘life is just a game of Civilisation’ type kid.

[Qin_Shi_Huangdi]

@lisiate

I agree that the elimination of the LTTE was a good thing overall but you are wrong in your first two assertions - the LTTE did have widespread support amongst the Tamil populace (how else could they have fought for 36 years?) and the Sri Lankan government did kill “tens of thousands of civilians” while suppressing them (sources : wikipedia on alleged war crimes in Sri Lanka and the UN report linked there - particularly page 74).

I concede the point.

This is irrelevant. The USSR’s involvement in WWII was a result of their invasion by a foreign power. It had nothing to do with involvement in the internal conflicts within another country. Oh and might I remind you that Stalin died in his bed while still the leader of the USSR - guess that right opportunity to strike never came.

Well World War 3 was virtually impossible, however after World War II the US did do much to oppose the USSR.

You say that like it’s a bad thing. Look the civilised world has agreed to abide by the various conventions and protocols governing warfare in an attempt to mitigate the evils and horrors that war brings. Transgressing these rules and protocols is seen as wrong.

And air strikes nor collateral damage are forbidden.

Pol Pot also died of old age in the jungles near the Thai border, without any fear of NATO bombers. Are you really telling me that you believe that Libyan forces are being issued Viagra? “Here’s your ammo, rations and field dressings Muammar. Oh, and don’t forget these blue pills for all the raping after.” It doesn’t make sense.

Considering the depravity of human beings and dictators it is not impossible.

Thanks for bringing Kosovo up, I forgot to in my previous post. In Kosovo Nato became involved to prevent ethnic cleansing by the Serbs. In doing so NATO assissted the very shady KLA to take control over most of Kosovo and pretty much ‘cleanse’ the area of Serbs instead. I wouldn’t say that Kosovo ahs turned out ‘just fine’ at all. Oh and for more cartoon villiany check out hte allegations of Organ theft in Kosovo by people linked to the KLA leadership.

That is very much like what happened in the former German territories (now Polish and Russian) after World War II. It certainly wasn’t justified but it was very much a “dog eat dog, you expel them or they expel you” situation.

How is the internal politics of Libya a matter of ‘life and death’ for NATO taxpayers?

I meant life and death for Libyans.

You (singular) are bad becuase you advocate measures that will result in the deaths of hundreds, if not thousands of civilians to ‘avenge’ something that happened in the 1980s. Typical ‘life is just a game of Civilisation’ type kid.

Sorry for misunderstanding you. However civilians will die anyways from Gadaffhi’s tyranny-indeed more if we do not intervene. Avenging Lockerbie is a bonus not the main point. And preferably I would if possible dispatch a SEAL team and do to Gadaffhi what we did to OBL>

[lisiate]

@Der_Trihs

Standard practice; the assassination of leaders is taboo, so you are supposed to lie about what you are doing and make a point of endangering or killing multitudes of other people in the process of killing your target.

Say what? Mass rape is an unfortunately common terror tactic. Just look at what the Serbs did in the recent Balkan wars.

And while the phrase you use is a common one, if anything “cartoon villains” are generally a lot less barbaric than the real world ones. You aren’t likely to see cartoon Darkseid rape Wonder Woman and castrate Superman.

And? There’s a rather large gray area between “never intervene” and “always intervene on the side of the rebels”; the only thing the two positions have in common is that they abrogate all judgment in favor of an inflexible rule.

I withdraw my comparison to cartoon villians, you’re right they tend to be better behaved that what we have in the real world.

As for the rest, I think I’m in broad agreement with most of your points.

• it is indeed standard practice to attempt to kill the enemy leader, I’m just sick of the euphemisms and hypocrisy of it all.
• I accept that mass rape as a terror tactic is now all to frequent, my scepticism is directed at the claims that the Libyan government is issuing it’s troops with viagra.
• there is a rather large gray area, personally I lean towards a ‘never intervene except in the most extreme situations’ default rule though this will always be a matter of personal opinion.

[Diceman]

Thanks for bringing Kosovo up, I forgot to in my previous post. In Kosovo Nato became involved to prevent ethnic cleansing by the Serbs. In doing so NATO assissted the very shady KLA to take control over most of Kosovo and pretty much ‘cleanse’ the area of Serbs instead. I wouldn’t say that Kosovo ahs turned out ‘just fine’ at all. Oh and for more cartoon villiany check out hte allegations of Organ theft in Kosovo by people linked to the KLA leadership.

Yeah, in Kosovo we pretty much just substituted one ethnic cleaning for another.

[Mijin]

@Diceman

Yeah, in Kosovo we pretty much just substituted one ethnic cleaning for another.

Yes, the fact that there remain sectarian divisions is exactly the same as the genocide of thousands of people.

[ralph124c]

We may well regret this. We might wind up installing another version of the Taliban in Libya.
Better the devil you know than the one you don’t.
Plus…once this is over, there will be billions $ in damages-who will foot the bill for reconstruction? In case you haven’t noticed, we (the USA) are broke.

[Der_Trihs]

@ralph124c

Plus…once this is over, there will be billions $ in damages-who will foot the bill for reconstruction?

The Libyans themselves, presumably.

[Jophiel]

I thought that’s what the whole “Seized $32 billion from Ghadaffi’s accounts” money was for – rebuilding and getting the new government running after the war.