# Do you think Bush was promised a fortune... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 9, 2006, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703 "2006-03-09T17:35:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/21 "2006-03-09T19:28:07Z")
> [@BarnOwl](#): > > It has to be money that’s driving this engine. In part, this is true. But Bill Clinton cashed that check. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/22 "2006-03-09T19:38:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > As I just noted in that Pit thread, Dubai has agreed to turn over control of the American ports to a “U.S. entity,” per Sen. John Warner. I’m not quite sure what all that means, but it might be a face-saving compromise for everybody. Breaking news from the [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/09/AR2006030901124.html?referrer=email): > [@](#): > > The United Arab Emirates company that was attempting to take over management operations at six U.S. ports announced today that it will divest itself of all American interests. > > The announcement appears to head off a major confrontation that was brewing between Congress and the Bush administration over the controversial deal. I guess they didn’t get their money’s worth. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/23 "2006-03-09T19:39:26Z")
> [@BarnOwl](#): > > The law says that if a deal involves a foreign power, or a company owned by a foreign power, then this must trigger a 45 day review. It did not. And did you see Bush call for one? Hell no. Dubai did, but Dubya didn’t. The law doesn’t quite say that, but it is a bit confusion: > [@](#): > > [TITLE 50, APPENDIX–WAR AND NATIONAL DEFENSE > \* DEFENSE PRODUCTION ACT OF 1950 > o ACT SEPT. 8, 1950, CH. 932, 64 STAT. 798](http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title50a/50a_75_1_7_.html) > > § 2170. Authority to review certain mergers, acquisitions, and takeovers > > (a) Investigations > > The President or the President’s designee may make an investigation to determine the effects on national security of mergers, acquisitions, and takeovers proposed or pending on or after the date of enactment of this section [Aug. 23, 1988] by or with foreign persons which could result in foreign control of persons engaged in interstate commerce in the United States. If it is determined that an investigation should be undertaken, it shall commence no later than 30 days after receipt by the President or the President’s designee of written notification of the proposed or pending merger, acquisition, or takeover as prescribed by regulations promulgated pursuant to this section. Such investigation shall be completed no later than 45 days after such determination. > > (b) Mandatory investigations > > The President or the President’s designee shall make an investigation, as described in subsection (a), in any instance in which an entity controlled by or acting on behalf of a foreign government seeks to engage in any merger, acquisition, or takeover which could result in control of a person engaged in interstate commerce in the United States that could affect the national security of the United States. The problem is, who gets to determine if something “could affect the national security of the United States”? It’s the CFIUS review board. Their unanimous decison to procede with this deal was their stamp of approval. I suppose one might argue that if a member or several members of that reveiw board had voted “no” and based their vote on national security concerns, then the mandatory 45-day reveiw would kick in. But that is not what happened. The law does not say that a 45-day review becomes mandatory whenever **BarnOwl** thinks it may affect national security. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/24 "2006-03-09T20:05:08Z")
> [@BarnOwl](#): > > And Dubya never heard of Ken Lay until after the Enron scandal broke. What does Bush have to do with Enron? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/25 "2006-03-09T20:05:54Z")
> [@BarnOwl](#): > > So if you think he’s ramming this deal through for the benefit of the country, you’re being not just stupid, but naive. You might actually get away witho protraying another poster as “naive” in **Great Debates** , but claiming another poster is stupid is out of bounds. Take personal insults to [The BBQ Pit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=5). [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/26 "2006-03-09T20:18:02Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > What does Bush have to do with Enron? You tell me. When the Enron scandal broke, reporters asked Bush what he knew about Ken Lay. Dubya replied to the effect that he didn’t know the guy at all. Then it develops that he did indeed know Ken Lay. That’s the point about Bush. He lies. And the people in this thread are only too happy to believe whatever he says. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/27 "2006-03-09T20:20:21Z")
“Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence.” ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/28 "2006-03-09T20:25:59Z")
> [@BarnOwl](#): > > That’s the point about Bush. He lies. And the people in this thread are only too happy to believe whatever he says. Riiiggghhhttt… Well then, hows about you back up some of your claims. Do you know what a ‘debate’ is? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/29 "2006-03-09T20:29:48Z")
> [@BarnOwl](#): > > That’s the point about Bush. He lies. And the people in this thread are only too happy to believe whatever he says. Again, it’s not about believing Bush or not. It’s about knowing how the government works. The government simply does not work in the way you are saying. Anyone who has ever dealt with government grants or contracts knows that. For you to make completely unsupported allegations about bribery that are completely at odds with processes of government contracting, and then to dismiss anyone who questions you are “naive” or “stupid” because, after all, Bush lies, is quite irresponsible. You have no basis for your assertion and you cannot defend it. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/30 "2006-03-09T21:31:54Z")
> [@Renob](#): > > Again, it’s not about believing Bush or not. It’s about knowing how the government works. The government simply does not work in the way you are saying. Anyone who has ever dealt with government grants or contracts knows that. > > For you to make completely unsupported allegations about bribery that are completely at odds with processes of government contracting, and then to dismiss anyone who questions you are “naive” or “stupid” because, after all, Bush lies, is quite irresponsible. You have no basis for your assertion and you cannot defend it. If you feel it is essential Bush must be informed of the Port scam anew (because he has so many other items on his plate) a UAE Emir could have quite logically instructed a minion to ask his counterpart in the Bush administration to remind the president that a very important deal is about to go down, “…and we hope that he will see it through.” And he does - or tries to. After all, he’s got a big financial stake in the matter. But you guys say, this isn’t the way government works. Instead you claim (by default, I guess) that Bush is so ineffably dumb he never anticipated the raging firestorm the Port deal would provoke in this country. So he gets behind it 110% to save face. In fact he says he’ll veto any congressional attempt to quash the deal. Although he’s been beating the drum to scare the crap out of us since 9/11, he expects us to meekly accept the fact that UAE will now control 6 of our key ports. Americans then learn that UAE is the same country that contributed financially to terrorism, that two of the plane hijackers in 9/11 came from UAE, this same country and was instrumental in shipping nuclear materials from Pakistan to Iran. Now. Is the man you’re promoting as simply ignorant of this deal that profoundly stupid? I guess so, because in your world politicians are never venal, leaders are never corrupt and countries never conspire. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/31 "2006-03-09T21:41:27Z")
> [@BarnOwl](#): > > That’s the point about Bush. He lies. And the people in this thread are only too happy to believe whatever he says. I’d be less surprised about some of the things you’re saying if you were new here. A number of the people you’re talking to can’t stand Bush. You should probably dial it down. I accept that Bush has lied or been less than truthful on many subjects. I don’t think this is one of them. It’s much easier to accept that Bush - a man I (among many others) don’t think of as a naturally curious person - didn’t ask or have reason to ask about a routine deal than to believe what amounts of a bribery accusation. ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/32 "2006-03-09T21:47:31Z")
Nice conspiracy theory, **BarnOwl** , but again I reiterate that your complete lack of knowledge about how our government works, especially in the contracting arena, makes it completely imposssible. However, if you have some sort of proof you’d like to offer, please do. Otherwise, > [@BarnOwl](#): > > If you feel it is essential Bush must be informed of the Port scam anew (because he has so many other items on his plate) a UAE Emir could have quite logically instructed a minion to ask his counterpart in the Bush administration to remind the president that a very important deal is about to go down, “…and we hope that he will see it through.” And he does - or tries to. After all, he’s got a big financial stake in the matter. > > But you guys say, this isn’t the way government works. What do you mean “anew”? Bush was never involved in it to begin with. These government contracts occur at a level far below Bush. He doesn’t sign off on them. They are handled by mid-level bureaucrats who probably have never even met the President. > [@](#): > > Is the man you’re promoting as simply ignorant of this deal that profoundly stupid? Since Bush didn’t engineer the deal and wasn’t involved in it, then it’s not a matter of “ignorant.” While you may assume that the President knows everything that is happening in every cabinet department, I can assure you that’s simply not the case. Many of these departments are controlled by career bureacrats simply following the laws passed by Congress. That’s what happened here. The firm met the law’s criteria and was approved. Not a big deal. > [@](#): > > I guess so, because in your world politicians are never venal, leaders are never corrupt and countries never conspire. Indeed all three happen, but to assert that you need some proof. You can’t simply say that you think this deal is the result of corruption and then, when people provide ample evidence that it is not, dismiss that by saying they are naive or stupid. If you have proof of corruption then present it. If not, then admit you don’t know what you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/33 "2006-03-09T21:55:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence. Are you talking about Bush or BarnOwl’s debating technique? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/34 "2006-03-09T21:56:40Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Are you talking about Bush or BarnOwl’s debating technique? The former. At least, consciously. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/35 "2006-03-09T22:17:31Z")
> [@Age Quod Agis](#): > > Breaking news from the [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/09/AR2006030901124.html?referrer=email):I guess they didn’t get their money’s worth. :rolleyes: “Dubai Port Company to Divest Itself of American Holdings” This agrees with what Time and Newsweek reported last week. The Dubai company was interested in the expanding Asia markets. They were most interested in the oriental and Far East ports. The U. S. ports came along with the deal. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/36 "2006-03-09T22:53:59Z")
> [@Doug Bowe](#): > > “Dubai Port Company to Divest Itself of American Holdings” > This agrees with what Time and Newsweek reported last week. The Dubai company was interested in the expanding Asia markets. They were most interested in the oriental and Far East ports. > The U. S. ports came along with the deal. As did the mangoes from Bush’s nuclear arms treaty with India. 😃😃😃 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/37 "2006-03-10T02:18:13Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Are you talking about Bush or BarnOwl’s debating technique? Y’know, the rule prohibiting personal insults in **GD** applies to long term posters as well as newer members. Stop it. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/38 "2006-03-10T08:50:26Z")
> [@Renob](#): > > He’s “ramming” nothing through. Saying that betrays a stunning ignorance of how government contracting works. Bush was not responsible for the deal. To reiterate, the President does not hand out government contracts. It’s not a matter of believing Bush or not, it’s a matter of having a little bit of knowledge about how the government works. Ramming:G-dub to congress:I will veto your sorry asses out the wazoo if you fuck with this deal… ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/39 "2006-03-10T09:31:45Z")
For the life of me, I cannot see a problem with P&O being sold to DPW. Why is OK for American companies to buy firms overseas but wrong for foreigners to buy American (oops! British!) It seems like knee-jerk America-first stuff coming from rubes on the Right combined with simple opportunism from the Left. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703/40 "2006-03-10T09:58:53Z")
- simple opportunism from the Left.\* and about fuckin’ time. The left in america needs a Tony Robbins course in opportunism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-bush-was-promised-a-fortune/347703.md?page=3)