# Do you think Christians look down on non-Christians? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 16, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731 "2009-11-16T03:06:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kintalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc8723/32.png) [@Kintalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kintalis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/61 "2009-11-16T19:58:53Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > You claim that this is an old idea. I’m pretty old myself (a senior citizen) and I’ve been around many different kinds of Christians all of my life. I attended a religious university for two years of religious training and I’ve been a member of three different denominations over the years. But I have never run across any group or any individual who stated such a belief. It would be the antithesis of the Second Great Commandment, the Beatitudes, and the Fruits of the Spirit. > > Please explain where you learned that such a sociopathic ideal was once considered a “major attraction of heaven.” - In order that the bliss of the saints may be more delightful for them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, it is given to them to see perfectly the punishment of the damned.\* - Thomas Aquinas, \*Summa Theologica \* ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/62 "2009-11-16T19:59:43Z")
> [@dhkendall](#): > > Well, considering Heaven and Hell aren’t as “real” places as, say, Denmark and New Jersey, the way we get its qualities are from spiritual texts, which some consider “parables” in themselves. (Because then, of course, we can actually use the “because the Bible said so!” arguement legitimately. I get the impression that the fact that you can see heaven from hell and vice-versa is long-established Jewish tradition (which is why Jesus used it in his analogy) and, since such metaphorical concepts can’t be definitively proven or disproven outside of religious texts, “tradition” will have to do for depicting properties of metaphorical places. You’re looking at a mistranslation. The word translated as “Hell” is “Hades” in Greek. The Jews did not (and still don’t) have a belief in an eternal Hell. Jewish afterlife beliefs have always been somewhat sketchy and subject for debate, but essentially, the developed from being almost non-existent, to a belief that people will be resurrected on the last day, to a belief that spirits reside in a temporary underworld called _Sheol_, which adopted enough Hellenistic influences to contain good and bad parts, with good people going to the “Bosom of Abraham,” and bad people being punished in Tartarus. Eventually, they were all supposed to get resurrected an judged, though. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/63 "2009-11-16T19:59:51Z")
Some do, most don’t. I would say the same for atheists: some look down on religious folk (and examples are vocal on this board), and I assume most don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/64 "2009-11-16T20:02:59Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > I correct you on this point not long ago (and not for the first time, I might add). I also predicted that you could continue to ignore that correction. I’m disappointed to see that I was right. > > To repeat: It is grossly inaccurate to say that atheism is a mere absence of belief. As defined by encyclopedias of philosophy, it most commonly refers to the active belief that there is no God. This is corroborated by every single dictionary that I’ve consulted, with only one exception that might _arguably_ be used to denote a mere absence of belief. > > Now, it is true that some modern skeptics choose to say that it is merely a lack of belief. Even if we grant that this is legitimate usage of the term though, the point remains that atheism is NOT specifically defined that way. At best, one could argue that it is an alternative usage of the term, one that differs from the historical usage. > > Somehow though, I don’t think that this will stop you from insisting that atheism specifically means nothing more than an absence of belief. I’ve learned that the hard way. > > But for the sake of argument, let’s grant your claim. You’re still making an irrelevant distinction, since your claim does not refute what **Shodan** said. If people do indeed “believe what they want to believe” (and I think that’s true of a great many people), then one could just as easily say that atheists don’t believe in God because they don’t want to. Whether atheism is a belief or not is simply irrelevant. Are you a vampire atheist? Just because you can’t see why you’re wrong doesn’t mean you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/65 "2009-11-16T20:13:59Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > This is surprising. I would have thought that, while there may certainly be issues which you aren’t particular happy with in your faith, that overall your preference is for God’s existence. Consider me educated. As I’ve said in a few previous discussions, I came to faith kicking and screaming (and yes, I ripped that phrase off from CS Lewis). While I did not have strong atheist leanings, I didn’t particularly want to believe in Christianity, and there were many times when I felt that God’s non-existence would have been extremely liberating. In the end though, I realized that I can’t pick my beliefs based simply on what I would prefer. I don’t blame you for thinking that theism was my preference. After all, this particular nuance doesn’t come up very often, though I have mentioned it. Moreover, my convictions nowadays are quite different from the beliefs (or more specifically, the preferences) that I held in my younger days before I embarked on a search for truth. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/66 "2009-11-16T20:20:45Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > As I’ve said in a few previous discussions, I came to faith kicking and screaming (and yes, I ripped that phrase off from CS Lewis). While I did not have strong atheist leanings, I didn’t particularly want to believe in Christianity, and there were many times when I felt that God’s non-existence would have been extremely liberating. In the end though, I realized that I can’t pick my beliefs based simply on what I would prefer. > > I don’t blame you for thinking that theism was my preference. After all, this particular nuance doesn’t come up very often, though I have mentioned it. Moreover, my convictions nowadays are quite different from the beliefs (or more specifically, the preferences) that I held in my younger days before I embarked on a search for truth. Without evidence the only logical reason to choose beliefs is personal preference. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/67 "2009-11-16T21:07:48Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > This is surprising. I would have thought that, while there may certainly be issues which you aren’t particular happy with in your faith, that overall your preference is for God’s existence. Consider me educated. No, I’d agree with **JThunder**. There are many ways in which my life would be easier as an atheist, and I’ve never found death to be scary either way. Being an active believer in a faith is hard work. However, truth is true regardless of how I feel about it at any given time, and generally the harder way is the more worthwhile. So, here I stay. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/68 "2009-11-16T21:36:38Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Without evidence the only logical reason to choose beliefs is personal preference. I agree on that point. What certain people don’t seem to grasp, however, is that many theists believe they DO have evidence for their belief. A skeptic might think otherwise, which is why many skeptics here state “There is NO evidence for God! None! None!” as though this were unassailable fact. For the purposes of this discussion, though; that is beside the point. The point is that, contrary to what numerous skeptics here claim, many theists do believe that they have sufficient evidence for their belief, and so their belief was not simply selected based on personal preference. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/69 "2009-11-16T21:48:58Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > No, I’d agree with **JThunder**. There are many ways in which my life would be easier as an atheist, and I’ve never found death to be scary either way. Being an active believer in a faith is hard work. However, truth is true regardless of how I feel about it at any given time, and generally the harder way is the more worthwhile. So, here I stay. Exactly right. Heck, all you have to do is consider the many people who were martyred because of their religious beliefs. Some skeptics would derisively claim that these people were simply seeking the emotional solace of belief in God. It seems implausible to me, however, that people would willingly allow themselves to be tortured and martyred for the sake of this solace – especially when you consider the [inhuman conditions](http://www.torturedforchrist.com/) that many of them have had to endure. Their belief in God might sustain them through these times, and they might even find joy and the [peace that passes all understanding](http://bible.cc/philippians/4-7.htm), but it’s implausible to suggest that they would willingly endure such torture simply because it gave them emotional comfort. When people dismissively say that theists believe in God because it’s an emotional crutch, it shows that they fail to understand how much hard work goes into being a faithful Christian devotee. It’s not an easy journey. That’s precisely why Jesus spoke about taking up one’s cross and following him. True worship demands sacrifice and much more. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/70 "2009-11-17T00:56:40Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > The point is that, contrary to what numerous skeptics here claim, many theists do believe that they have sufficient evidence for their belief, and so their belief was not simply selected based on personal preference. I certainly accept that they believe it. That doesn’t mean they have evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/71 "2009-11-17T00:58:28Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Exactly right. > > Heck, all you have to do is consider the many people who were martyred because of their religious beliefs. Some skeptics would derisively claim that these people were simply seeking the emotional solace of belief in God. It seems implausible to me, however, that people would willingly allow themselves to be tortured and martyred for the sake of this solace – especially when you consider the [inhuman conditions](http://www.torturedforchrist.com/) that many of them have had to endure. Their belief in God might sustain them through these times, and they might even find joy and the [peace that passes all understanding](http://bible.cc/philippians/4-7.htm), but it’s implausible to suggest that they would willingly endure such torture simply because it gave them emotional comfort. > > When people dismissively say that theists believe in God because it’s an emotional crutch, it shows that they fail to understand how much hard work goes into being a faithful Christian devotee. It’s not an easy journey. That’s precisely why Jesus spoke about taking up one’s cross and following him. True worship demands sacrifice and much more. Not at all. Believing in god is easy. Living forever and never truly losing anyone you love is worth any amount of sacrifice. If you think faith is hard work that’s because you’re fighting your logical mind which is rebelling against such unfounded rubbish. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/72 "2009-11-17T01:02:33Z")
I am of the considered opinion that the majority of Christians both pity _and_ think they’re superior to non-christians. (Though some skip the pity.) I’m also of the opinion that it’s virtually impossible to pity them _without_ looking down on them; pity as an emotion presumes that you are doing it from a position of superiority, at least on the attribute which you’re pitying them for. It seems to me that there are only two ways for a Christian _not_ to imagine themselves as superior to non-christians: they can have no particular opinion about them either way, or they can think the non-christians are _better_. I do not think the latter happens very often, and any Christian who spares two words towards prosteletizing or mentioning their faith uninvited cannot be the former. It should also be noted the same three categories apply to atheists, and I think it’s similarly uncommon for atheists to be opinionless about Christians. Believing onesself to be _worse_ than the christians may be more common, though - particularly among persons who have only recently been forced to abandon Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Randori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@Randori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randori)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/73 "2009-11-17T02:40:00Z")
i am christian, and i have never found anything that would cause me to abandon that. (i could give you quite a few sappy story’s an account of why i am christian(, and not say, Buddhist) but i am shure you have all heard more than your fill of those…) it is extremely unfortunate how maybe somewhere in the ballpark of 70% of the christians i know openly look down on non X’tians, many christians i have known are just plain jerks, probably under the mindset of ‘oh well, i am forgiven anyway, so i guess i can just do whatever the hell i feel like’ In fact most of the coolest people i have known have no religious views due to lack of proof, and i think they are my best role models (other than jesus himself) and seem to be morally stronger than i am. To be honest, if all the information i had on christianity was how the christians acted, then i would probably not have anything to do with them. it does not make us better in my eyes that we are going to heaven, in the same way that taking a bus to Maine makes you any better than the guy heading to Nevada, its just different destinations, If asked how, i try my best to lead them in the right direction, but thats it. but i digress, i do agree that most, if not a supermajority of christians are absolute pricks. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/74 "2009-11-17T03:06:36Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I certainly accept that they believe it. That doesn’t mean they have evidence. I’m not surprised that you feel that way. As I said though, your objection is irrelevant to _this particular discussion_. The topic at hand (or rather, the sub-topic) isn’t whether theists are accurate in their belief or not. Rather, the question is WHY they believe as they do. Do they believe (as numerous skeptics here insist) because belief in God provides comfort? Or do they believe in God because they maintain that there is sufficiently convincing evidence, even though it would be most liberating to disbelieve in his existence? Personally, I don’t doubt that a good number of theists belong to the first category. I simply think it’s foolish to pretend that atheists can’t possibly use the same rationale to deny his existence. I also recognize that faithful adherence to a religion (and Christianity in particular) typically does NOT produce a lifetime of comfort and emotional succor. As **dangermom** said, religious adherence is hard work. People who take their faith seriously typically don’t do so simply because they find it comforting, as evidenced by the thousands of believers who have undergone tremendous pain and suffering – even unto death – for the sake of their faith. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/75 "2009-11-17T03:12:16Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Not at all. Believing in god is easy. Spoken like a true atheist. I’ve already provided an extensive discussion of why it would be much more convenient NOT to be believe in God. > [@](#): > > Living forever and never truly losing anyone you love is worth any amount of sacrifice. And yet sacrifice is seldom easy, even if the payoff is worth it. Moreover – and I want to say this as gently as possible – your comment shows that you don’t truly grasp the Christian faith. Christianity does NOT guarantee that you will never lose anyone you love. Quite the contrary; Jesus himself warned that people may have to [forsake their families](http://www.thewordsofeternallife.com/cost.html) for the sake of following him. It certainly does not provide any guarantee that all your family members and other loved ones will join you in eternity! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/76 "2009-11-17T03:17:58Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Spoken like a true atheist. I’ve already provided an extensive discussion of why it would be much more convenient NOT to be believe in God. > > And yet sacrifice is seldom easy, even if the payoff is worth it. The sacrifices for Christianity are socially engineered to be easy. They involve Sunday at the social club and feeling really sorry after they ignore one of the rules. > [@](#): > > Moreover – and I want to say this as gently as possible – your comment shows that you don’t truly grasp the Christian faith. Christianity does NOT guarantee that you will never lose anyone you love. Quite the contrary; Jesus himself warned that people may have to [forsake their families](http://www.thewordsofeternallife.com/cost.html) for the sake of following him. It certainly does not provide any guarantee that all your family members and other loved ones will join you in eternity! I think you’ll find that the vast majority of Christians [think they’re going to heaven](http://abcnews.go.com/US/Beliefs/story?id=1422658). So try as you might to pretend that the choice to be religious is hard, it certainly is not. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/77 "2009-11-17T03:26:43Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The sacrifices for Christianity are socially engineered to be easy. They involve Sunday at the social club and feeling really sorry after they ignore one of the rules. This is an absolute strawman. I will grant it’s possible for some Christians – and I’ll grant it’s more possible for those Christians on the other side of the “faith vs. works” argument. But … do you _understand_ the faith vs. work argument? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/78 "2009-11-17T03:32:52Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The sacrifices for Christianity are socially engineered to be easy. They involve Sunday at the social club and feeling really sorry after they ignore one of the rules. Fella, you have no clue. > [@](#): > > I think you’ll find that the vast majority of Christians [think they’re going to heaven](http://abcnews.go.com/US/Beliefs/story?id=1422658). Yes, but we weren’t talking about that. Rather, we were talking about your claim that Christianity means you’ll never be separated from the ones that you love. That’s not the same thing. Consider this. It’s not enough for the Christian to get into heaven. All his loved ones would have to do the same, and nothing in Christianity guarantees that’ll happen. I think you know this, so why do you insist that Christianity guarantees eternity with everyone that you love? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/79 "2009-11-17T03:33:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This is an absolute strawman. > > I will grant it’s possible for some Christians – and I’ll grant it’s more possible for those Christians on the other side of the “faith vs. works” argument. > > But … do you _understand_ the faith vs. work argument? A better question would be do the vast majority of Christians understand it? From the link above 85% of believers think they will go to heaven. What is your guess about how many of those actually understand with any level of detail the faith they’ve chosen to believe? Most Christians in my experience are woefully ignorant about their faith. They believe in a fuzzy sort of way that go to church, be good and you go to heaven. And when their dad dies, they think, “well he was a good man, he’s in heaven.” Christianity is easy. It’s all about the softening of hard realities. There are strong Christians, but you don’t have to be strong in the least to be one. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731/80 "2009-11-17T03:35:34Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Fella, you have no clue. > Yes, but we weren’t talking about that. Rather, we were talking about your claim that Christianity means you’ll never be separated from the ones that you love. That’s not the same thing. > > Consider this. It’s not enough for the Christian to get into heaven. All his loved ones would have to do the same, and nothing in Christianity guarantees that’ll happen. I think you know this, so why do you insist that Christianity guarantees eternity with everyone that you love? Think for a second. 85% of Christians believe they’re going to heaven. Of that group, what percentage do you think assume that their loved ones are going to heaven? The vast majority of Christians think heaven is going to be a huge high-school reunion and dear uncle Larry with the brain tumor will be there and we’ll talk about old times. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-christians-look-down-on-non-christians/517731.md?page=5)