# Do you think Hegseth has had "the talk" with Vance? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [July 16, 2025, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902 "2025-07-16T02:30:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/1 "2025-07-16T02:30:07Z")
The new issue of the Atlantic is geared around the 80th anniversary of the Bomb. That included an article reminding us of the remarkable truth that the President has sole authority to call for a nuclear strike. In our current world that means that President Trump could order a strike - _and no one could countermand the order_. The issue has come up before; during Nixon’s last years in office he was drinking so heavily that those around him talked with one another about what they could do if… I have to assume that every administration since has had similar clandestine meetings. Is this one the exception? Does anyone think that SecDef Pete Hegseth (the “football” communicates directly with the Pentagon) has talked to VP Vance about the possibility of using the 25th Amendment to gather the cabinet and bump Trump at least temporarily from office if he got into one of his tantrums and wants to take out Tehran or Pyongyang or Los Angeles? Loyalty to the president has always played a part - Nixon’s people were mostly loyal to the end. But they had to face reality. I wonder which side the people in Washington will pick today. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/2 "2025-07-16T02:55:35Z")
Do we have any evidence that Hegseth is rational enough to know that using nuclear weapons would be a _bad_ thing? ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/3 "2025-07-16T02:59:30Z")
I think it very likely that the current administration, empowered by a perception of invincibility due to many decades of picking wars against non-peer states feels that no one would be able to challenge them seriously if they _did_ use weapons against an opponent who didn’t have any. They might even be right, terrifyingly enough. Though I’d bet it would increase the chances that Putin, among others, would find it very easy to then use their own nukes either directly or as a justification. IE it would be a dam breaking, an especially terrifying one. And let’s be honest, I don’t think he’d get enough support to move forward with the 25th even IF he decided it was a bridge too far. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/4 "2025-07-16T03:04:29Z")
Remember that Trump purportedly asked three times during an hour-long meeting, ‘If we have [nuclear weapons], why can’t we use them?’ This time he’s made sure there are no Adults in the Room. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2025, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/5 "2025-07-16T03:52:47Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > And let’s be honest, I don’t think he’d get enough support to move forward with the 25th even IF he decided it was a bridge too far. No question that going there would be only as a result of something gigantically disastrous. Even then the result would be in doubt. Pulling the plug is unforeseeable. Discussing it is different: a possibility that is exactly like all the ~~war~~ \* attack plans that the DoD draws up on a regular basis. We know that Hegseth is aware of those. So is Vance. It’s their actual duty to cover that contingency. No matter how many toadies surround them, somebody is going to get through and raise the issue. One hopes. \* Sorry, Pete. We know you didn’t leak any _war_ plans. You said so. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2025, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/6 "2025-07-17T07:42:54Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Loyalty to the president has always played a part - Nixon’s people were mostly loyal to the end. But they had to face reality. I wonder which side the people in Washington will pick today. At this point, the part that loyalty plays is 100% of the total. It’s literally the only thing Trump actually cared about when appointing these people. Every one of them knows in their heart that they wouldn’t have ever even gotten close to the jobs they have now if Trump wasn’t their sponsor. If any one of them reached out to another to privately discuss how to handle Trump, the person on the receiving end of this communication would almost certain rat the other out to Trump, to prove their loyalty to him. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2025, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/7 "2025-07-17T18:19:46Z")
Didn’t Milley arrange that Trump couldn’t launch with out approval of the Joint Chiefs? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2025, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/8 "2025-07-17T18:36:05Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Trump couldn’t launch with out approval of the Joint Chiefs Close, but not exact, according to this article based on the Bernstein and Costa book. > **[Milley acted to prevent Trump from misusing nuclear weapons, war with China,...](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/milley-acted-prevent-trump-misusing-nuclear-weapons-war-china-book-n1279187)** > > The book also revealed a previously unreported call between then-Vice President Mike Pence and former Vice President Dan Quayle. > “I can guarantee you [Nancy Pelosi], you can take it to the bank, that there’ll be, that the nuclear triggers are secure and we’re not going to do — we’re not going to allow anything crazy, illegal, immoral or unethical to happen,” Milley told her, according to a transcript of the call obtained by the authors. > > After the call, Milley summoned senior officers from the National Military Command Center to go over the procedures for launching nuclear weapons, the book said. He told the officers that if they got a call, “you do the procedure. You do the process. And I’m part of that procedure,” he said — making sure he was in the loop on any planned military actions, the book said. Trump has denied any such statements or actions, of course. What Milley intended to do to obstruct may be in the book, but it’s not in the articles I read. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2025, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/9 "2025-07-17T18:53:17Z")
Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2025, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/10 "2025-07-17T18:58:43Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > This time he’s made sure there are no Adults in the Room. From what I’ve seen, there aren’t even adults in the area code. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Didn’t Milley arrange that Trump couldn’t launch with out approval of the Joint Chiefs? The Joint Chiefs of Staff are not in the chain of command for confirming or conveying nuclear launch or deployment order, authorizing the release of nuclear weapons to STRATCOM or battlefield command officers, or otherwise in a direct role of controlling a strategic attack. They are essentially just in an advisory role to the President, Secretary of Defense, and National Security Council. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2025, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/11 "2025-07-17T20:14:45Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The issue has come up before; during Nixon’s last years in office he was drinking so heavily that those around him talked with one another about what they could do if… In this case, **Hegseth** is the one with the documented alcohol problem. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2025, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/12 "2025-07-17T20:35:50Z")
But… but… but… he vowed not to touch a drop of alcohol while in office. He vowed! ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2025, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/13 "2025-07-17T20:44:47Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Remember that Trump purportedly asked three times during an hour-long meeting, ‘If we have [nuclear weapons], why can’t we use them?’ > > This time he’s made sure there are no Adults in the Room. ^This. Also, I can’t see Hegseth taking time away from a busy day of drinking to have a heart-to-heart with Vance. Further, each of them would suspect the other of wearing a wire in an attempt to gain favor with their deranged Daddy. If Trump sees the end coming, and with his current health situation (swollen ankles and discolored hands likely being the tip of the bad-health iceberg) that may be the case, then I’m fairly certain that would mean the end is coming for most of us. (Maybe Alaska would be safe…) ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2025, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/14 "2025-07-17T22:38:44Z")
I was distracted by the thought of Pete explaining to JD where babies come from. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2025, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/15 "2025-07-17T22:49:12Z")
“No, JD, they don’t emerge from between couch cushions.” ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2025, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/16 "2025-07-18T00:28:10Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > In this case, **Hegseth** is the one with the documented alcohol problem. What problem? He drinks, he gets drunk, he falls down. Alcohol is working perfectly for him. > [@Drum\_God](#): > > I was distracted by the thought of Pete explaining to JD where babies come from. That is a Dropout sketch in the making. Not a good one, but think I don’t think they shoot for that any more. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2025, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/17 "2025-07-18T15:20:02Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > Pete explaining to JD where babies come from “So, it starts as a Ottoman, goes through an awkward phase as a “Loveseat” (but don’t let Epstein lead you astray, that’s _not what that means_), and then becomes a beautiful, full-grown couch.” ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2025, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/18 "2025-07-18T15:21:00Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > > [@Atamasama](#): > > > > In this case, **Hegseth** is the one with the documented alcohol problem. > > What problem? It’s the classic, “Two hands, one mouth.” ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2025, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/19 "2025-07-18T16:16:46Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > It’s the classic, “Two hands, one mouth.” I wouldn’t put it past Hegseth to be giving himself a vodka spritzer enema. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2025, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902/20 "2025-07-18T16:17:48Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > a vodka spritzer enema Well, he _does_ seem to talk out of his ass a lot… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-hegseth-has-had-the-talk-with-vance/1020902.md?page=2)