# Do you think it is possible at all to choose your sexuality? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2010, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-it-is-possible-at-all-to-choose-your-sexuality/532194 "2010-03-12T02:12:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-it-is-possible-at-all-to-choose-your-sexuality/532194/41 "2010-03-14T14:58:06Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > What about all of the gay people who say that they didn’t make a choice? I’m not trying to pick a fight, I’m genuinely interested in your answer as to how you came to this conclusion. They made a choice, but they are not aware of it. They didn’t just sit down one day and say to themselves, “Okay, from today onward, I’m gonna be queer.” As I said, it’s the product of life experience and upbringing, and because it was their life, it seems perfectly natural to them. I know one lady that is a lesbian; she had an abusive father who treated her like dirt. Is that why she is a lesbian? Don’t know, but I imagine it played a big role in it. IANA shrink, so take that as an educated guess and nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-it-is-possible-at-all-to-choose-your-sexuality/532194/42 "2010-03-14T14:59:25Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Everything which isn’t the norm and for which a genetic link has not been established is a choice? C’mon… it’s possible for a trait, even an unusual trait, to be neither genetic nor a choice, surely? I don’t know. However, given the fundamental nature of sexual orientation, I find it hard to believe that it is not a choice. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-it-is-possible-at-all-to-choose-your-sexuality/532194/43 "2010-03-14T15:02:20Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > They haven’t discovered a suitable method for containing a proper atmosphere long-term in a Moon base–does that mean that no such method exists? It means that we don’t know about a method yet. I’m simply shaving with Occam’s razor here - the simplest solution is usually the correct one. If someone does discover a “gay gene”, then I will revise my thinking, because that will be a simpler, more fundamental solution. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-it-is-possible-at-all-to-choose-your-sexuality/532194/44 "2010-03-14T15:08:53Z")
> [@palindromemordnilap](#): > > First, I assume by “someone” in the hetero and homo examples, you mean males. Yes. Reverse the genders if the person is female. > [@palindromemordnilap](#): > > Second, hetero should be “exclusively” not “occasionally” attracted to the opposite sex and homo should be “exclusively” not “occasionally” attracted to the same sex; otherwise the person is bisexual. See, but that’s the brilliance of it! The definition of bisexuality is both heterosexual and homosexual, meaning that the idea of exclusivity is implied. > [@palindromemordnilap](#): > > Third, even if the terms for sexuality are not be complicated, that does not mean one’s sexuality is not complicated and can not be influenced by circumstance. Well, sure. That goes without saying. > [@palindromemordnilap](#): > > I believe there have been men in jail who were never attracted to men previously but consented to sex with men because there were no women available. I also believe that not all women who go into the porn industry are naturally bisexual, but that many grow to enjoy same-sex partners in their working lives even if they maintain exclusively opposite-sex relationships outside their careers (and vice versa). In both of these cases, a person might choose to engage in a certain kind of sexual behavior that is not his or her original preference, and might enjoy that behavior. It’s a circular argument to say if someone changes their sexuality then they were that all along because sexuality can’t be changed. And this is why the line is not ‘enjoys sexual behaivor’, but ‘thinks sexy thoughts about’. Fantasizes, in other words. Straight men in prison, to take your example, may have sex with other men, but probably don’t fantasize about men all of a sudden. > [@palindromemordnilap](#): > > Fourth, there’s more to sexuality than the continuum from straight to gay. There was a time when I found performing cunnilingus to be very distasteful (literally) but I stuck it out (as it were) and now it’s one of my faves. I suspect that people who indulge a fetish are more likely to intensify that fetish through reinforcement than people who resist the urge. > > So far from being simple, I believe it’s a very complex question. Sure. I acknowledge that sexuality as a whole is incredibly complicated. But, the **definitions** of the **single** axis of hetero/homo are much less complicated than we think they are. That’s all I’m saying. > [@Clothahump](#): > > I don’t know. However, given the fundamental nature of sexual orientation, I find it hard to believe that it is not a choice. YMMV. :dubious: If it’s a fundamental nature, wouldn’t it be more likely to be genetic? People don’t choose their height. > [@Clothahump](#): > > It means that we don’t know about a method yet. I’m simply shaving with Occam’s razor here - the simplest solution is usually the correct one. If someone does discover a “gay gene”, then I will revise my thinking, because that will be a simpler, more fundamental solution. Why would sexuality being a choice be simpler than sexuality being genetic? I’ve never heard that argument before. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-it-is-possible-at-all-to-choose-your-sexuality/532194/45 "2010-03-14T15:24:17Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > They made a choice, but they are not aware of it. They didn’t just sit down one day and say to themselves, “Okay, from today onward, I’m gonna be queer.”. _Bursts out laughing, wipes tears from eyes_ Thank you for the funniest thing I’ve read all week. Truly, you are a master comedian. 🙂 Oh, wait, you’re serious? In which case - :dubious: What you’re saying, as someone who isn’t gay and therefore can’t possibly know, is that gay people (unlike straight people as I’ve seen no mention in your other posts about this happening) at some point make a subconscious decision to be gay. How would that even work? And if it’s a subconscious choice, then calling it a choice is a real stretch. Also, you do realise that homosexual desire and behaviour has existed long before the concept of exclusive homosexuality has, right? So deciding subconsciously to be gay wouldn’t apply to someone born in a time where homosexual behaviour wasn’t widely known or talked about (pretty much any time before the 20th century), or conversely wasn’t worth commenting on (I’m thinking pre-Christian societies). Finally, got any evidence for this? Or is this all just a belief you have. If the latter that’s all well and good, but I just want to be clear that’s the case and you’re not putting this out as anything more then a personal belief as opposed to a testable theory. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-it-is-possible-at-all-to-choose-your-sexuality/532194/46 "2010-03-14T17:00:12Z")
While there is some evidence of a genetic factor to sexual preference, it’s still relatively weak. I suspect that most of it is trained, but like religion or whatever, it’s taught at such a young age that for most of us it becomes essentially immutable. We simply refuse to think about it. But of course for some percent of people it almost certainly is genetic, and that’s even more immutable. Either way, so long as everyone is happy, consenting, and causes no harm, I don’t really give a damn. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-it-is-possible-at-all-to-choose-your-sexuality/532194/47 "2010-03-14T17:17:17Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I suspect that most of it is trained, but like religion or whatever, it’s taught at such a young age that for most of us it becomes essentially immutable. We simply refuse to think about it. :dubious: Is “trained” really the word you’re going for? Trained by who? You’re comparing someone being gay to learning a religion? And don’t even bother trying to argue with **Clothahump**. The only thing he dislikes more than homosexuality is religion. Which seems bizarre, but there you go. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-it-is-possible-at-all-to-choose-your-sexuality/532194/48 "2010-03-14T18:36:55Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > While there is some evidence of a genetic factor to sexual preference, it’s still relatively weak. I suspect that most of it is trained, but like religion or whatever, it’s taught at such a young age that for most of us it becomes essentially immutable. We simply refuse to think about it. But…people do think about it, all the time. Scientists do research on the topic. I don’t see what you’re saying. I don’t see how this meshes with the real world at all. If sexual orientation is trained, or taught, why are there so very many gay people who have trouble coming out to their parents because being gay goes _against_ what they were taught as children? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-it-is-possible-at-all-to-choose-your-sexuality/532194/49 "2010-03-14T19:19:44Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > :dubious: Is “trained” really the word you’re going for? Trained by who? You’re comparing someone being gay to learning a religion? I’m comparing straightness to learning a religion. Most likely most of us would be able to get it up and screw anything that looked screwable if we hadn’t conditioned ourselves to not think that way. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-it-is-possible-at-all-to-choose-your-sexuality/532194/50 "2010-03-14T19:25:40Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > If sexual orientation is trained, or taught, why are there so very many gay people who have trouble coming out to their parents because being gay goes _against_ what they were taught as children? Because a) many people who are gay are people who are [genetically inclined](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation) towards homosexuality (maybe as much as 52%), b) what you develop as doesn’t necessarily have much to do with your parents. Society doesn’t _actively_ teach sexual preference, it’s just something that we expect kids to pick up explicitly by watching how we interact. Just because you have a particular upbringing doesn’t mean it will take. You might see Mickey and Minnie Mouse getting _particularly friendly_ but just thinking “Well gee, it’s nice when people get _particularly friendly_ with one another” and then you randomly start thinking of your best friend (who is of your same sex) and thinking “Gosh, it would be nice to get _particularly friendly_ with him.” You failed at connecting the opposite-sex factor to the relationship. But you’ve made the connection of your same-sex friend and _particularly friendly_ relationships at such a young age that you’ve self-indoctrinated yourself in this way of thinking. In all your future relationships you’re asking yourself whether they match up to your old best friend (who is of your sex), instead of whether they match up to Minnie Mouse. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-it-is-possible-at-all-to-choose-your-sexuality/532194/51 "2010-03-14T19:34:11Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m comparing straightness to learning a religion. Most likely most of us would be able to get it up and screw anything that looked screwable if we hadn’t conditioned ourselves to not think that way. Once again, this is the problem with defining sexuality in terms of, “If you had to…”. Sexuality is about wanting. Not what a person settles for, or decides to pursue, or is forced into doing, but about what they want to do (sexually). ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-it-is-possible-at-all-to-choose-your-sexuality/532194/52 "2010-03-14T20:23:28Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Once again, this is the problem with defining sexuality in terms of, “If you had to…”. Sexuality is about wanting. Not what a person settles for, or decides to pursue, or is forced into doing, but about what they want to do (sexually). You’re reading too much into my sentence. And really the larger nitpick would be that I used the word “screw” rather than “harbor emotional attraction to.” My post wasn’t very rigorously academically phrased. I’m saying that what a person wants to do sexually and emotionally is something that, when you’re born, is likely fairly fluid. Our best evidence indicates that there’s only a ~52% chance that someone who is homosexual was so because of genetic factors. Now we can assume that sexuality falls on a bell curve. If that was so, though, you would expect that there would be a larger number of bisexuals than gays, [this doesn’t seem to be so](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation), which indicates that anyone who is fairly fluid (genetically), will have chosen a side rather than stay in the middle. There is some amount of artificial, social force that tries to force people to one end or another. And we know that ~48% of homosexuals were genetically fluid (though they may no longer be practicably fluid). The real question is where the bell curve lies. It could and probably is set up biologically to prefer exclusive opposite-sex attraction. But knowing that society will itself force people towards opposite-sex attraction, there’s probably not a strong preference for straightness. Overall, say that there’s a decent bet that double the number of people are genetically straight as those who are genetically homosexual. That still only makes it so that 5% of the population is genetically exclusively straight, 2.5% genetically exclusively homosexual, and the remaining 92.5% floating free in varying levels of bisexuality (until social indoctrination kicks in.) Knowing that early childhood learning becomes fairly inelastic, it becomes entirely feasible that this would be strong enough to carry through life without further genetic prompting. With the data we have, this premise is entirely reasonable. It might be wrong and in fact it’s 20X more likely to be exclusively, genetically straight, but I don’t know that we can prove that one way or another until we fully understand genetics. ---
**Author:** ![fifty-six](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@fifty-six](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fifty-six)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-it-is-possible-at-all-to-choose-your-sexuality/532194/53 "2010-03-15T01:06:01Z")
> [@fisha](#): > > Weren’t you in prison for a while, **fifty-six?** Do you think that had any influence on you? Actually no. I never had any sexual activity in jails or prison except for being nearly raped and or abused when I was young and didn’t know how to protect myself. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-it-is-possible-at-all-to-choose-your-sexuality/532194/54 "2010-03-21T02:41:22Z")
> [@fifty-six](#): > > Actually no. I never had any sexual activity in jails or prison except for being nearly raped and or abused when I was young and didn’t know how to protect myself. I wasn’t going after you, it was a sincere question. Were you very heterosexual at that time, and looking back find it somewhat ironic that you are more open now? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-it-is-possible-at-all-to-choose-your-sexuality/532194/55 "2010-03-21T02:56:23Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > I know when I was young, there was no way a straight guy would ever have man to man sex. But now young people are more apt to try it, “just to see.” Or even, “Well if no one else is around and I want to get off.” > > They may not even be attracted to their sexual partner but are looking for a release. wat [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-it-is-possible-at-all-to-choose-your-sexuality/532194.md?page=2)