# Do you think Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 12, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572 "2019-08-12T19:05:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/21 "2019-08-12T23:26:15Z")
I voted yes. To listen to some conspiracy-minded people, nobody has _ever_ committed suicide in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/22 "2019-08-12T23:34:47Z")
Quite obviously a case of assisted, or strongly suggested, suicide. Just like Pentangeli in the Godfather. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U89DzP8NGM4) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/23 "2019-08-12T23:42:57Z")
I believe that he killed himself, but was taken off suicide watch so that he would kill himself. This order likely came from two guys in the administration whose names rhyme with “Car” and “Pump”. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/24 "2019-08-12T23:47:05Z")
Yes. I don’t go for conspiracy theories, and based on the information available at this point suicide seems the most likely explanation. If an investigation turns up compelling evidence that it was something else, then I will change my opinion, but in the absence of such evidence I have to believe he committed suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/25 "2019-08-13T00:27:34Z")
Apparently, the jail where Epstein was held was badly understaffed, with guards working 80 hour weeks. > **[Federal jail where Jeffrey Epstein was held has history of security issues](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/federal-jail-where-jeffrey-epstein-was-held-has-history-of-security-issues)** > > The federal detention center where millionaire financier and convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein was being held has had some notable lapses in security over the years. I vote suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/26 "2019-08-13T01:09:29Z")
Probably suicide, but I don’t actually know. I’ll accept the independent audit results, or whatever’s happening. Pretty much, I’ll ignore it, because if something is _really_ going on, it will become big, giant, huge news, and I can react to it then. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/27 "2019-08-13T02:38:37Z")
We don’t know anything yet, beyond the fact that he’s dead of an apparent suicide and was found in his cell, alone. We don’t even have autopsy results yet. Like **Little Nemo** , I don’t think it’s a binary question. I draw a distinction between someone who unexpectedly kills him/herself and someone whose known inclinations in that direction are exploited and encouraged. I am more than a little suspicious about William Barr’s failure to recuse himself from overseeing this case, then going to such great lengths to spin the manner of death of Epstein even before autopsy results have been finalized. Barr squandered his credibility with his lies about the Mueller report, so far as I’m concerned. The [bipartisan letter from the House Judiciary Committee demanding answers to 23 questions](https://gallery.mailchimp.com/0275399506e2bdd8fe2012b77/files/3e65de39-527d-4221-b7c3-d8c08a4e2e00/08_12_19_Collins_Nadler_Letter_to_BOP_Director_Hurwitz_Final.pdf?utm_source=Collins+Judiciary+Press+List&utm_campaign=4021dcce85-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_08_12_08_03&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ff92df788e-4021dcce85-) is a good start for investigating this matter. I voted ‘not sure.’ ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/28 "2019-08-13T03:28:21Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > Yes. I don’t go for conspiracy theories, and based on the information available at this point suicide seems the most likely explanation. If an investigation turns up compelling evidence that it was something else, then I will change my opinion, but in the absence of such evidence I have to believe he committed suicide. Pretty much this for me too. I’ll be happy to revise my opinion as new evidence comes to light, but for now suicide seems the most likely explanation. A rich guy faced with public humiliation and the loss of everything in his life, an overworked prison staff, a little bit of time alone with a bed sheet… presto! I do wonder about why he was taken off suicide watch, but as someone (maybe on Twitter) said, the guy was an accomplished manipulator, so it’s certainly within the realm of possibility that he manipulated the staff into thinking he wasn’t a real threat to himself. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/29 "2019-08-13T03:38:18Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I am in line with all of this, except the voting No by mistake part. 🙂 The note vote was a thoughtless impulse. Should’ve given it a moment’s thought, not voted for any of the three options, and then posted my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/30 "2019-08-13T03:47:20Z")
Arrested/jailed pedophile = high likelihood of suicide He offed himself without any help. Epstein knew the government had a mountain of evidence and life in prison was the only thing in his future. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/31 "2019-08-13T04:12:43Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Yes, I do. Prisoners off themselves all of the time. It’s easier to blame inattentive guards in an understaffed prison for his suicide than it is to invent convoluted conspiracy theories. Occam’s Razor, and all that. The simplest theory is usually the most correct. This combined with him finally facing a situation he a) couldn’t buy his way out of and b) was going to put him in close contact with people he wouldn’t impress. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/32 "2019-08-13T04:26:33Z")
As I noted in another thread [Raw Story reports that](https://www.rawstory.com/2019/08/jeffrey-epsteins-lawyers-asked-jail-to-take-him-off-suicide-watch-wsj/) the _Wall Street Journal_ says that Epstein’s attorneys asked for him to be taken off suicide watch. Unfortunately, while Raw Story links to the Journal, the Journal is paywalled and I can’t read the linked article. Anyone have access to it? Suicide watch, as I recall, is pretty degrading and uncomfortable; perhaps that’s why he his attorneys wanted him taken off suicide watch. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/33 "2019-08-13T06:56:16Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > As I noted in another thread [Raw Story reports that](https://www.rawstory.com/2019/08/jeffrey-epsteins-lawyers-asked-jail-to-take-him-off-suicide-watch-wsj/) the _Wall Street Journal_ says that Epstein’s attorneys asked for him to be taken off suicide watch. Unfortunately, while Raw Story links to the Journal, the Journal is paywalled and I can’t read the linked article. Anyone have access to it? > > Suicide watch, as I recall, is pretty degrading and uncomfortable; perhaps that’s why he his attorneys wanted him taken off suicide watch. I saw a non-WSJ article (I think it was AP, but don’t remember which site) that stated his lawyers asked for him to be removed. However, that in no way means that it should happen, that BoP psychologists/psychiatrists should sign off on anyone being removed & _that_ step didn’t happen. I guess you could, maybe, possibly call it a conspiracy theory, but initiated from his side. Not that I ever would, but _if_ I murdered someone & they offered to take the death penalty off the table in exchange for telling them where the body was as I’ve seen in other high-profile cases I would go the opposite way - _Ensure_ I got the death penalty rather than spend the rest of my natural life in a small cell, with no freedom, having to think about it. Within reason, I live my life how I want, do what I want when I want. Take all of that away from me, either as a prisoner or as a quad & I wouldn’t want to go on. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/34 "2019-08-13T06:57:33Z")
He did kill himself, but only because the people who wanted him silenced made it easy for him to do so. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/35 "2019-08-13T08:00:40Z")
Yes, I assume he did. He should not have been allowed to, and if there is any shenanigans, and there very well seems to be, it’s in them letting it happen. But even if it’s just gross incompetence, it deserves a thorough investigation on an unprecedented level, as it implies a systemic problem, considering how often it seems to happen throughout prisons (worldwide, sadly). ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/36 "2019-08-13T08:25:18Z")
The thing that seems off to me that I haven’t seen mentioned is the specific motivation for his suicide so soon after arrest. I can understand that it must be a shock for a rich, seemingly bulletproof guy who had been getting away with something for so long to finally be held accountable, but he had been busted before and ended up with just the lightest of slaps on the wrist, probably giving him confidence that there would be a similar outcome this time around, and I would assume his team of lawyers were pumping him full of false hope to keep his $$$ coming in, telling him that the case against him was full of holes and that the Powers That Be were using him as a pawn to get to his more famous, more powerful “fellow enthusiasts”, and just maybe he had himself a nice little videotaped Insurance Policy that would have givien him hope that a Presidential Pardon would be forthcoming if the chips didn’t fall his way. At the very least, I can’t see why he didn’t want to stick around long enough to take some of his famous, equally debauched and debased Running Pardners down with him. It seems like it is human nature, at least for immature minded sociopaths, for someone who has been caught red handed to want to say, “Hey, I wasn’t the only one here, what about Timmy and Jimmy and Billy and Willie?!?” like a 5 year old who doesn’t think that it is fair for him being singled out for punishment when dozens of his friends also enjoyed a furtive trip to the forbidden cookie jar. He had no wife or children who could be threatened to make him hang it all up, so it does seem out of character for someone with an ego like this to fold his hand so early in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/37 "2019-08-13T08:38:00Z")
Yes. People seriously underestimate the degree to which the justice system can behave with reckless indifference toward the people in its care. I think there’s also a lot of wishful thinking about the nature of his connections, with people taking for granted that this case was going to bring down dozens or hundreds of powerful men (especially powerful men from the opposite political party of whoever was talking about the case), so _of course_ there were shadowy forces out there trying to kill him. It was turning into QAnon for news junkies IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/38 "2019-08-13T10:13:31Z")
I voted “Not Sure” - it’s entirely plausible that he killed himself (on his own or with “prompting”) given what he was facing, but if even some of the stories about him are true there were a lot of powerful people (not all American) who stood to have their dirty little secrets revealed. So suicide or murder are both plausible explanations. I’m not sold on the whole “He’s not really dead; this is all a coverup and he’s been spirited away” story, however. Far easier and less risky for Epstein to be really dead. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/39 "2019-08-13T13:17:27Z")
I voted not sure, but what I really think is that he was permitted to commit suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/40 "2019-08-13T13:32:14Z")
Definitely. Do I think the jail set up his circumstances so he would be able to commit suicide? You betcha. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572.md?page=3)