# Do you think Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 12, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572 "2019-08-12T19:05:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/41 "2019-08-13T14:01:05Z")
Latest reports claim a bedsheet tied to the bunk bed killed Epstein. That seems odd because I saw other reports claiming prisoners were supplied with sheets that would easily tear. Eliminating the suicide risk. > **[Jeffrey Epstein hanged himself with prison bedsheet: source](https://nypost.com/2019/08/12/jeffrey-epstein-hanged-himself-with-prison-bedsheet-source/)** > > The convicted pedophile apparently, who was 6 feet tall, killed himself by kneeling toward the floor and strangling himself with the makeshift noose, a law enforcement source said Monday. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/42 "2019-08-13T14:04:46Z")
I find it hard to believe that him being dead would meaningfully protect anyone whose secrets he’s been harboring. He either already squealed all he was gonna squeal, or he has video/documentation that the FBI will find anyway. Since killing him to keep him silent seems futile, and since he had every reason not to spend the rest of his miserable life getting assaulted in prison, suicide seems far more likely. In that vein, I don’t understand what you’re all saying about “the prison allowed him to commit suicide.” Unless you buy into the murder angle, what’s in it for the prison? ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/43 "2019-08-13T14:06:03Z")
I do believe he committed suicide. I am open to the possibility that circumstances were such he would be allowed to commit suicide, beyond negligence. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/44 "2019-08-13T14:22:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think the poll should have had two options. One for a unexpected suicide and one for somebody intentionally making it possible for him to commit suicide. I think first we should ask, “Do you believe Jeffrey Epstein is dead?” ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/45 "2019-08-13T14:36:32Z")
I voted _not sure_. Conspiracy theories aside, it is possible that he simply got into a fight with another inmate and was murdered. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/46 "2019-08-13T14:49:23Z")
I agree with the consensus, he killed himself, but things were lined up to give him the opportunity - off suicide watch, substitute guard not following protocol and no roommate when there was supposed to be one is just too many coincidences. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/47 "2019-08-13T15:07:09Z")
I’m reminded of [Hanlon’s Razor:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor) > [@Hanlon](#): > > Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. Why was he taken off of suicide watch? Eh, he convinced the officials that he had a weak moment that lead to his first attempt, and now he’s got his head screwed on straight. With regard to a patient’s state of mind, doctors can only know what the patient is willing to tell them. Also, maybe he really was feeling OK, until that latest news broke last Friday, at which point he may have realized he was well and truly fucked. Why wasn’t his cell being checked on a regular basis like it was supposed to? As a consultant on the news pointed out the other day, “what prison guards do and what they’re supposed to do are usually two very different things.” There are all kinds of disasters that have been caused by people not following prescribed protocol; a prisoner intent on killing himself in prison doesn’t require any nefarious intent/assistance from third parties. And so what if a cell really is being checked every thirty minutes? ISTM that still leaves you with a thirty-minute window in which to rig something up. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/48 "2019-08-13T15:34:50Z")
I don’t go for conspiracy theories (except for well-sourced plausible ones like the CIA’s role in the ascendency of abstract expressionist art), but when a person who could implicate so many powerful folks commits suicide in police custody, it doesn’t take a conspiratorial mindset to suspect that something foul was afoot. When (at least) one of the aforementioned powerful folks came up in a field like New York construction, suspecting something other than suicide is a bit easier as well. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/49 "2019-08-13T15:54:27Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I think first we should ask, “Do you believe Jeffrey Epstein is dead?” This just in: Jeffrey Epstein is still dead. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/50 "2019-08-13T16:14:18Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I think first we should ask, “Do you believe Jeffrey Epstein is dead?” If the Death-Mistress says he’s dead, he’s dead. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/22080_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/51 "2019-08-13T16:33:49Z")
I voted Not Sure only because I would not be surprised if his demise was, um, assisted… ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/52 "2019-08-13T16:50:49Z")
Yes\* \*but with enablement and encouragement from various others to do it as the easy way out and take his secrets to the grave. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/53 "2019-08-13T17:13:40Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > (snip) > > I do think he killed himself. I also think it was intentionally made possible for him to do so. This. I think he was given the opportunity to kill himself by A) leaving him alone, and B) taking him off suicide watch. While the prison is blaming understaffing and tiredness. I think we do need to know who made the decision to take him off watch and what their reasoning was, including did they suddenly have a big bill they owed paid off or make a major purchase. What is that person’s politics? While I don’t really believe the conspiracy theories, I agree that the circumstances are a bit suspicious and a small investigation would go a long way towards relieving people’s concerns/imaginations. I also think the investigation needs to continue as there were many others involved in this damaging game, Trump, Clinton, et al. ---
**Author:** ![DrForrester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@DrForrester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrForrester)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/54 "2019-08-13T17:16:10Z")
[Hermann Göring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_G%C3%B6ring) committed suicide. If he could do it, with the level of care being taken to preserve his life, anyone could do it. Hermann had help. Jeffrey may have had help. I don’t doubt that Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. He waited until it was clear that he was not going to be able to bond / bail out for the trial. He knew the strength of the case against him. He knew that he would never be free again. What conceivable evidence could he possibly give to reduce his prison time? If he had a clear high-definition video of the T-rump having sex with someone who was screaming, “Stop! I am only 12 years old!!” would that have been enough to trade away for a significantly reduced sentence? No, it would not. Epstein was just done. He knew it. He took matters into his own hands. I’m not sure why this is even a question, honestly. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/55 "2019-08-13T18:14:18Z")
> [@DrForrester](#): > > If he had a clear high-definition video of the T-rump having sex with someone who was screaming, “Stop! I am only 12 years old!!” would that have been enough to trade away for a significantly reduced sentence? No, it would not… I am not sure if you are right or not. Something like that wouldn’t have likely gotten him off scott free with a spring in his step, a twinkle in his eye and a taxpayer-furnished Uber ride to the nearest all-girls high school, but I would guess something like that would have significant leveraging value in the right set of skilled legal hands. There is no doubt in my mind that many Americans, doubtless more than a few right here on the Straight Dope, would gladly give ol’ Uncle Jeffie a “Get Out Of Jail Free, No Hard Feelings Sir, Here’s My 17 Year-Old Drug Addled Niece’s Phone Number” card for anything that would bring down Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/56 "2019-08-13T18:51:44Z")
> [@DrForrester](#): > > I don’t doubt that Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. He waited until it was clear that he was not going to be able to bond / bail out for the trial. He knew the strength of the case against him. He knew that he would never be free again. > > What conceivable evidence could he possibly give to reduce his prison time? If he had a clear high-definition video of the T-rump having sex with someone who was screaming, “Stop! I am only 12 years old!!” would that have been enough to trade away for a significantly reduced sentence? No, it would not. > > Epstein was just done. He knew it. He took matters into his own hands. > > I’m not sure why this is even a question, honestly. If I was forced to answer yes or no on suicide I’d say ‘yes’. But choose ‘don’t know’ in the poll because the negligence by the prison authorities seems so shocking. ‘Never attribute to malice what’s explained by stupidity’ but this case tests that theorem IMO. So I’d rather wait and hear the detailed explanation. But again I do lean more to yes for some of the reasons you gave. No way could Epstein trade info for a deal as a ‘small fish’, unless the authorities dealing with him were hell bent by political bias on nailing a particular person on the ‘other side’ (which could just as conceivably be Bill Clinton as Donald Trump) but there’s no real suggestion either Epstein had info implicating anyone else to a degree it would be plausible to give him, Epstein, any real break and have it stand public scrutiny. See the 2007 plea deal with Epstein where there’s no actual evidence prosecutors acted improperly but still a firestorm of retroactive criticism in today’s environment (I’m not saying they made the right call, but there’s no evidence AFAIK they acted corruptly). Then there’s the usual obstacle to believing outrageous conspiracies if you’re not into that stuff: ‘career’ people in the govt are not monolithic politically. Not enough anyway to make it likely they commit or allow serious crimes for political ends and nobody else blows the whistle. Who/what to prosecute and what sleeping dogs to leave lying, yes I think politics does affect those decisions. But having people murdered or allowing their suicide on purpose is a lot different than investigating/prosecuting some things more than others based on politics. But again this is a such a screw up, ‘wait and see’ is my answer if that’s a choice. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/57 "2019-08-13T19:13:24Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > He might have done it as his final “fuck you” to all those who would use him for information and then lock him up for the rest of his life. Another factor he may have considered as part of his “fuck you” was knowledge that by killing himself he would be unable to be tried and convicted. This would prevent his ultra expensive properties around the world from being seized in order to provide civil compensation to his victims. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/58 "2019-08-13T19:48:38Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Another factor he may have considered as part of his “fuck you” was knowledge that by killing himself he would be unable to be tried and convicted. This would prevent his ultra expensive properties around the world from being seized in order to provide civil compensation to his victims. IANAL, but I would think that civil suits against his estate could go forward even though he’s dead. If the preponderance of evidence is that he did these things, then couldn’t victims get judgments against his estate? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/59 "2019-08-13T22:52:12Z")
Any competent forensic pathologist would be able to distinguish between self-hanging and an attempt by a killer to simulate suicide. I would probably be able to do it myself if an open book autopsy was allowed and I had access to a good toxicology lab. 🙂 I see however that “Epstein’s camp” has called in Michael Baden to do an independent autopsy, and given Baden’s history, an alternative explanation to suicide is not unlikely. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/60 "2019-08-13T23:06:57Z")
I don’t think he was killed. I am 50/50 split between “they let him commit suicide” and “people are constantly dying on suicide watch because prisons are criminally incompetent”. No doubt the man was despondent. He was truly fucked, for the first time in his life, in solitary, knowing that his powerful friends would breathe easier with him dead. Whatever comes of this, somebody needs to answer why the prison system didn’t seem too interested in safeguarding a guy who was literally the highest-risk, highest profile guy in the entire prison. It’s crazy that someone hasn’t already been fired for this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572.md?page=4)